[Nurse Ben]

Okay, so instead of just adding to the other two "lost" Prophet review threads, I'm gonna try something different:

First, my telemark experience:
Advanced Skier, athletic, age 44, 6', 200#, more power style than finesse, learning to finesse, but it's so much fun to pound!
How I learned: Alpine skiier ages 10-16, snowboarder ages 16-20, telemark and AT ages 20-25, various disciplines ages 25-35, exclusively telemark ages 35-45.

Favorite 75mm setup: HH, BD 01, T Race three buckle
Least Favorite 75mm set up: T2, 7TM

Bindings Tried: 7TM, BD 02/01, HH/Axl, Cobra, G3, Bomber, Voile (numerous), Bulldog, three pins.
Boots Tried: Veloce, T2, T Race thee buckle, SynerG/EnerG/Excursion, T1 Four Buckle, TX gen1/2/3/Pro/Comp, Evo gen 1/Shiver gen 1, Prophet
Bindings Tried: NTN gen1/2/3, NTAxls, NTxDogs.

Current Boots: Scarpa Comps, Scarpa TX Beta and Gen 1
Current Bindings: NTxDogs, Springs: Red-Gold and Blue-Gold
Current Skis: Rossi SC 87, Elan S12 Expert, AP, SS, Akomas, Freeheels

Scarpa TX Gen1/Gen 2
Feel: Light weight, moderately stiff cuff, similar to three buckle TRace, very stiff bellows on par with Evo Gen1
Fit: True to size, new Scarpa wide toe box, high volume instep
Pros: Light, powerful
Cons: Bellows were too stiff for NTN Gen 1 resulting in numerous broken bindings
Comment: I skied them for a 1/2 season, broke too many bindings, went back to HH/01 for the remaining season. I did the Summer exchange program for the Gen 2 softe bellowed lowers, found them to be too soft and sold them, bought Evos Gen 1.
Comments specfic to TX Gen2: The softer bellows created a number of problems including poor control over torsion at the BOF and toe crunch. The toe crunch resulted from bellows collapse as the ROM of the softer bellows was exceeded, the boot caved in the the BOF. Based on comments about the Scarpa TX/TX Pro Gen 3, this seems to remain a problem for low skiers.

Crispi Evo Gen 1
Feel: Heavy, very stiff cuff and stiff bellows, similar bellows stiffness to TX Gen 1
Fit: True to size, old Crispi fit with narrow heel and narrow toe box. Ended up using a Scarpa thermowrap tall liner which improved fit, feel, and reduced weight.
Pros: Very powerful boot
Cons: Very heavy, overcame bindings if I didn't centered, poor ankle mobility, increased toe rocker led to more neutral feel at turn initiation, a lot of boot for hiking/skiing. Potential for toe crunch when skied low, seems to ease as the liners packed out at the toe
Comments: Skied the Evo for a full season, sold them only after getting some Shivers, would have kept them for resort piste, gates, etc... Good boot for aggressive skiers, would be better if the NTN binding were more active...

Crispi Shiver:
Feel: Moderately stiff cuff, medium stiff bellows, cuff and bellows well matched, trimmed back some of the cuff straps which reduce cuff binding and increased ankle feel and reduced instep shell distortion
Fit: True size, New Crispi Fit, similar to old Scarpa fit, moderte heel and toe box width. Factory liner didn't fit my foot, too low cut on calf, so I used the Scarpa Thermowrap liner from the Evos.
Pros: Light, nice balance of flex in shell and bellows, good boot for resort and BC, inexpensive, durable
Cons: Crap liner, no cant, four buckle is one buckle too much, leaky, no replaceable guard at ankle, plastic buckle, minor rocker development. Potential for toe crunch when skied low, seems to ease as the liners packed out at the toe.
Comments: This is one my current boots and my favorite "soft feel" boot to date. I think it could be improved, but it's a goo all around boot to drive big skis but still hit the BC, great value for sure. Too bad the women's version wasn't imported this year

UPDATE 1/5/2010:
Skied the Shiver for a six day stretch at Monarch, lots of fast skiing on steep terrain, big bumps, pow, trees, fast groomers. I like the way the boot flexes at the ankle, no problems with quality of construction, but I have not been able to resolve the famous Crispi toe crush. I have gone as far as to "cut out" the liner foam at the bellows and cut back my insole leaving just the heel and arch, but I still have crushing toe pain. I believe there are two reasons for this problem: First, the upper bellows and instep are driving into the top of my toes when I ski low. Secondly, because the NTN binding can't retain my heel, I am getting much lower than I'd like (to get proper bellows flex and binding activity) which seems to worsen the toe compression

Update 1/11/10:
I picked up some Scarpa Comps from Ed Hale (thanks Ed!), did some carpet testing since I didn't go skiing this weekend. First off, this is one high volume boot, much roomier than even the Shiver, probably on par with the original TX. Anyway, I had to put in a heel lift and some iron soles to take up the volume, which seems to work fine and still gives me a nice big toe box. I compared the Comp to my well worn Shivers, at which point my wife says: the Shiver bellows are totally deforming! Apparently I have so worn the Shivers that the bellows max out to the point that the attachment points for and aft of the bellows are coming together and crumpling.

As to the Comps, they have less bellows stiffness than the Shivers, more than the TX/TX Pro, still having a problem with the rear bellows diving under the forward bellows, like I noticed in my TX V2, but with the extra stiffness and toe box room, I didn't get the pain I have been getting in the Shivers. I'll take them skiing this week and see how they do. Overall the boot is well made, essentially a four buckle T Race in baby shite yellow, but with a alpine styled intuition liner with center tongue. I like the liner a lot!

I've been skiing the Comp for a few weeks, feel like the cuff is softening up, like the tongue styled intution liner, been switching it back and forth into the Shivers. Bellows remain medium flexing. The one complaint I have is that the sole is rockering quite a bit under the BOF, much more than the Evo or Shiver. This is the sam ething that happened with my TX gen 1. They still ski fine, but it make for bigger dead spot on Rotte NTN bindings and rocker launch on NTBulldogs.

Garmont Prophet
Feel: Full cut alpine styled boot, medium stiff cuff, two stage bellows, lightweight
Fit: High volume instep, heel, and forefoot, fits large, possibly as much as one shell size, though I think it may be a boot for short and fat feet.
Pros: Well designed, many bells and whistles, well thought out, lightweight, excellent buckle, sole, liner, and second heel design.
Cons: Soft plastic, toe box distorts in low stance, first zone of bellows flex is too soft.
Comments: This is a "non-ski" review, so keeping that in mind... I tried on a beta version of the Prophet last winter and was intrigued by all the bells and whistles. I did not get to ski that version. I ordered a 2010 Prophet and did some "carpet testing" iin comparison to my Shivers. The Prophet has some nice features, a well made liner, fancy buckles, a removeable second heel, overall a great package.
HOWEVER: The fit is akward, not anatomical, high volume. The plastic seems soft, distorted easilly when buckled, can be pressed in at the ankle with just a thumb. In the bindings the bellows have two zones of flex, the first required minimal cuff pressure, the second is the more active zone typical of the Shiver. There is a final zone of flex where the toe box crumples as it bends around the toe bale! This crumpling was most disturbing, though it was not unexpected as I had read reviews where this had been mentioned. This crumpling would be a toe crusher if the boot were skied short and low.
Though the second zone of flex is stiff enough to drive big skis, the first zone is soft enough that it might seem neutral, which could be good for ease of transition but bad for hard driving. This softer, initial flex zone did not lead to less tippy toe, which was suprising, as I though a softer initial flex would help keep the BOF down to help if a skier was not centered well.
Another issue was resistance to torsion and second heel fit. The forefoot of the Prophet can be twisted in your hands, so certainly not as stiff as the Cripis, probably on par with the newer Scarpa TX/TX Pro. The second heel, though a great idea being replaceable, is also narrower in width, which seemed to make it loose in the second heel. In the binding I was able to displace the boot heel laterally as measured at the heel lift; it was significantly more than the Shiver.

Update: 1/5/2010
Scarpa TX Pro Gen 2
This was a carpet test only, but I had the opportunity to test fiot a TX Pro while visiting Dobish at Bent Gate. I was in a small boot, not too small, but certaibnly more of a "resort fit". Fit was narrower in the heel that my TX, which I found interesting. I was able to use the boot in some bindings and found the bellows to be quite soft. The bellows do seem to be somewhat less likely to collapse as they did with the TX Gen 2 bellows (the crackers), but the upper bellows still fold under the lower bellows, so I was able to induce toe/foot crush.

If you are on the fence about buying into NTN, do yourself a huge favor and demo before buying. And don't just demo for a day, demo for a week, NTN is unlike any other telemark system; it takes some time to adjust your style as well as tune NTN to your desired feel. NTN is not better than duckbills, it's different. It will not make you a better skier, no matter what the reviews suggest.

And remember: No one cares that you telemark!

Big Update 2/4/10:
I am no longer using Rottefella NTN bindings. I am now skiing exclusively in NTBulldogs and loving them!

Everything I disliked in the Rottefella NTN binding is resolved in the NTBulldogs. I get a more active system, less lateral movement, more positive feel, more durability, and two pounds lighter! And best of all, the dead zone has disappeared!

The NTBulldogs make the Comp come alive, making it vastly more active and powerful than on Rotte's mousetrap. As to the Shivers, in teh NTNBUlldogs I no longer get toe pinch. So WHAM baby, you get what you pay for!!

Update 4/21/10:
I picked up some more boots from Ed Hale, thanks Ed!
This pair is a beta version of the original all orange Scarpa TX. They do not have dynafittings. These are the same boot design that Mitch used in the pre-production reviews. The flex is just a tad bit stiffer than the Comps, but better in that the bellows do not collapse like in the newer Scarpa NTN boots. What I gotta wonder is why in the world didn't Scarpa stick with that original boot bellows or go back to them after the overly stiff gen one TX? Seriously, Mitch was right, the early Scarpa boot was awesome!!

I also picked up a pair of new, never skied, Scarpa TX lowers from year one. Now these babies are stiff, just like I remember! They're so stiff that I'm not sure what I'll do with them, though I think I may combine them with my Comp uppers and create the Scarpa super boot

So which boot will I be skiing this summer? The beta TX, yeah, that's right, it's back to the basics baby

Hey Scapra, why not bring back the pre-production TX bellows?
Did you lose the recipe

[hdiddy]

I'll try to add:
Me: advanced skier, fairly aggressive style, tendency to ski tall but open to changing style as gear may dictate. 36 yo. 150 lbs, 5'10".

Prev Gear I liked: Crispi Evo, K2 Workstinx, Voile Switchback, Hardwire CRBs, Garmont Excursion, Fischer Rebound
Prev Gear that was okay: K2 World Piste, Scarpa T2X, Voile 3-pin
Pre Gear I didn't like: n/a I like just about everything so long as it fits.
Current Gear: Crispi Evo, Scarpa Tx-Pro, K2 Workstinx & Coomba

Scarpa TX-Pro Gen 2 (09/10)
Feel: Light weight, soft bellows, average boot cuff. Reminded me alot of the Red T2Xs.
Fit: True to size.
Pros: Light, powerful when skied moderate low/low stance.
Cons: Baking the liners went fine but after a few hours, holy copulate did the bone below my anklebones hurt on the outer sides of the foot. The intuition liners use a very dense material on the back. 3 days that ended with almost excruiciating pain. See comments below
Comments: Ok the good stuff in detail. I spent 3 days on these so far. The boot kinda doesn't respond well when skied tall. Yes the bellows are soft, esp with a low spring setting. For me, blues on 1 was extremely neutral - even too neutral. Felt like I was skiing leathers or something. Eventually ended up with blue 2 for just a touch of activity. Stand tall and the boots don't show off that NTN power. Drop into a moderately low and *compact* stance and it rips. I skied some soft conditions and they loved to bounce and fly fast. Very fun when things were good. I find the soft bellows more of a feature than a bug. Good for those who want to drop that knee. Tall-styled skiers should look at stiffer boots.

Now the bad side:
My days ended with excruiciating pain between the heels and the arches on the outside of my foot. I baked them the first time myself, the 2nd time I paid a visit to Granite Chief @ Squaw to bake them again. Confirmed that my first bake was a good one. It helped baking them a second time but it still hurt. Boot size fits great, no length problems but something about the liner and the way Scarpa did the bottoms just isn't working for me so far. I'll give it to the boot tho, the heel hold was impeccable - no slipping whatsoever. I think the fit problems may also be due to simple anatomy. My ankle bones sit lower on my foot than most guys so I think it's a contributing factor. Scarpa shaped the lowers so that there seems to be more of a pronounced flange on the back of the boot. Compared with the Evos, there's no such curvature. I can take a photos of the two liners if someone requests and I think it will show exactly what I'm talking about.

Update 1/25/10
Good: Skied them in some really amazing pow for the Sierras this weekend and a nice powder tour. They tour pretty good. Felt like I had XCD on and was kicking & gliding pretty easily. Nice light, almost supple. For those of who who want a modern leather big boot, this is for you. Really. A little softer in the bellows after 4 days, really good neutral skiing if that's your cup.

Bad: I think I'm done with these, unless I get NTBulldogs on some Guides for some serious meadowskipping (which is still a possibility). I went to NTN primarily to get away from boot rocker. I kept feeling like I was getting launched forward all weekend but was able to mostly resist it. Came home and dry tested the boot fit and there's about 1/2"+ gap with the boot off the heel. Add the rocker + easy flex and off the front I go. I def need as much boot activity as I can get now.

Crispi Evo Gen 2 (08/09)
Feel: Heavy, very stiff cuff and stiff bellows
Fit: True to size
Pros: Very powerful boot and extremely responsive. Will give you strong sense of your skis at all times tall or low stance. These mofos rip. You better be ready to ski them or they will ski you.
Cons: Very heavy and stiff. My knees hurt after a day of skiing in them. I made incisions into the tongue and made the cuff less stiff which helped make the bellows respond with less force. The boots also have a tendency to dive a bit in soft snow. Still with the modded tongue, I wanted to try finding something easier on the knees, thus why I tried the opposite extreme with the Tx-Pros.

I'll continue to fiddle with these two boots. I don't want to give up on the Scarpas just yet but see if I can make it work as I like the weight the feel otherwise.

Edit: I compared the two boots just for about 20 minutes, swapping liners and insoles between the two. It seems like the heel pocket may be slightly more narrow on the Scarpas than the Evos. This may be a deal breaker for me. The problem didn't really show up until I started skiing them alot. I can feel pressure on the side of my heel even with the Evo liners in the Tx-Pros. I think the last resort now would be to rebake the intuitions with some extra material on the hotspot to see if I can make some room.

Update 1/25/10
In comparing them between the TX-Pro, I'm in love with these again. The knee pain was more of a technique issue and when done right, these boots can be skied effortlessly on the down. They crush everything in sight and will always angulate without hesitation on command. Everytime I'm standing around and feeling the flex... it's like a mechanized war machine on your feet prompting you for it's next command. With my tongue mods, they're the best boots I've ever skied.

I have some luxury intuition liners OTW and will try them. I'm hoping there will be an improved fit, more warmth, and less weight.
_________________
Drive the cuff

[nstelemark]

Competent Skier (tele examiner in PSIA terminology), athletic, age 44, 5'8", 180#, more finesse than power.
Prev Gear I liked: HH, Garmont EnerG, Volkl (RaceTigers, Mantras, ACTs).
Prev Gear that was okay: SynerG, Prototype Scarpa TX, JakBC
Prev Gear I didn't like: Atomic TM22s
Current Gear: Mantras, Racetigers, and a few more, HH4 with Stiffys, EnerGs, Prophets, Green Evos, Comp TXs.

Ice coast skier.

Yes I own all three boots - sigh.

Fit on all three was pretty much true to size. The 28.5/29 Evo, CompTX and the 28/28.5 Prophets all measure within a few mm of each other for sole length.


Garmont Prophet

Pros

Really well made.
The most responsive of the three "power" boots - ie Evo, Comp & Prophet**
Very form fitting (yes this could be a con too).
Light.

Cons

Toe bang at full compression (this is a design feature AFAICT, not the toe bang but the way the toe box pushes in to avoid excessive force on the toe box). Size accordingly.
Soft initial bellows flex (could be a pro for some).
Rapid liners (I could not get the fit I wanted).
Mushy cuff with the Rapid liner.

I really like the overlap cuff. The boot is very very responsive, this may be partially due to my modifications but I really think the overlap design is a winner. By responsive I mean the feel and the way power is delivered. Don't assume the softish plastic of the Prophet means no ability to muscle the ski. The three buckles are all that is needed to make the boots snug up well.

**My Prophets are not stock. I am using an Intuition Plug Liner (very stiff) and a Booster Strap.

Crispi Evo

Pros

Stiff
Well made just not as slick as the Prophet

Cons

Toe crunch due to toe box collapse.
Low and stiff tongue.
So so liner.
Very high arch in the boot shell.


I have skied with a number of skiers using the Orange boot and the toe box crunch is not a factor with the older model. This must be due to the softening of the bellows and toe box. It is too bad as it is a well thought out boot. The arch is really high, too much for me with a green superfoot. I had to shim the heel and forefoot to flatten it out. The tongue is lower than I would have expected and very stiff, so I had a pressure point there.

Other than the fit issues I thought it skied well. Moderately stiff bellows now, certainly not more so than the TX comp.


Scarpa TX Comp

Pros

Stiff
Well made - almost as slick as the Prophet
Nice Liner (Intuition for Scarpa with tongue)
Built in Booster strap.


Cons

Really high volume
Odd heel pocket

The current Scarpa fit is higher volume than the old Garmont 75 fit. The Comp skis very well, better than the new Evo IMO. I really like the bellows, buckle arrangement and built in booster strap. The lock block work well. Moderately stiff bellows, nicely balanced cuff and tongue.


Subjective Skiing Comparison -

1. Garmont Prophet (modified)
2. Scarpa TX Comp (better for the power skier IMO)
3. Crispi Evo - meh in the new green version.



Volume comparison -

Scarpa - high
Crispi Evo Shiver - medium +
Crispi Evo - medium
Garmont Prophet - low (precise)
_________________
Larry
_
racetiger SLs are for everyone!
- well ok maybe not

[nstelemark]

I thought it would be worth adding that the TX Comp in the same shell length is noticeably higher volume than my EnerGs. I would hesitate to say huge but damn they are big.
_________________
Larry
_
racetiger SLs are for everyone!
- well ok maybe not

[Danno]

I have a number of days on Prophets and will soon get some days on TX Pros.

About me: I am ~170 pounds, in a 26.5. I like to think that I ski aggressively , I do seek out difficult terrain and don't tiptoe down it, but have been told that I have a smooth style, and that is probably borne out by the fact that I rarely break equipment, and never ripped out my O1s from my Gotamas like everyone else seemed to. I don't ski very low or very high.

The Prophets seem to be a well designed boot, and I have had no toe crunch whatsoever. However, I am having serious problems with heel movement. I see many people saying that the Prophet is on the lower volume side of all of the boots, but I have not found this. They seem lower volume than the TX Pros in the toe area for sure, but very high volume in the rear of the foot. I have a fairly normal foot, most boots fit me, and I could not get my heel to stop moving around in the Prophet. This problem is compounded by the buckle design, the overlap shell doesn't really give you a single buckle to lock the heel down like the TX Pro does, and even with all 3 buckles cranked, my foot moved a lot. I find myself curling my toes to try to stop the foot from moving in the boot.

Hope my TX Pro experience is better.
_________________
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"I'm comfortable misreading the tone of posts in a way which suits me."
"Alas, I've been born a Sisyphus for love."

[Mike C]

I put more time on the Comp today and I still prefer my Evos. Simply- the Evos have more support (all over) and it feels like a more balanced boot. The bellows of the comp felt a little more stiff, but with the shorter locked cuff it lacked the drive I was looking for.

While it does not have fancy locking buckles, a heel retention system, dynafit compatibility, or lacing liners - The Evo makes up for it by way of its ridiculously well balanced POWER.

For the record - the tx, pro, and prophet are mush to me and for my style of skiing, i really dislike them- but at the same time I can see how other people may love them.

Its really apples to oranges when you compare the other NTN boots to the evo and comp.
_________________
Save skiing Free the heel

- Yo Mama's K2 skis are so old , They were Made in the USA!

[nstelemark]

[Mike C]

I'm in the Green Evo
_________________
Save skiing Free the heel

- Yo Mama's K2 skis are so old , They were Made in the USA!

[nstelemark]

[hdiddy]

bump cuz I updated my section. My bottom line: TX-Pro is great for someone looking for a very neutral (yes neutral on NTN), easy flexing boot. I just found that a stiff light boot is more of what I'm looking for. It tours pretty good, just wish it didn't start rockering after 4 days and a tour.
_________________
Drive the cuff

[hdiddy]

Went and bought a digital scale today. Weighed the Evo vs. the Shiver. The Shiver is 1 full lb lighter than the Evo, per pair.

http://www.newtelemarkguide.com/wiki/Template:NTN_Boots#Comparison

As far as liners go for size 27.0:
1) Evo liner: 9.4 oz
2) Crispi Liner: 8.6oz
3) Intuition Luxury Low Volume: 8.6oz
Weights are for each liner, not pair.
_________________
Drive the cuff

[Bambi]

Just reviving this thread with a specific question:

As I can't demo can anyone give me a comparison of these boots to a T1 which is what I am used to? Maybe a reference to the HH 'scale' would be useful too.

I think I have a handle on the relative comparison of the NTN boots which seem to be:

TX Comp. High boot, Stiff bellows, No walk mode
Shiver. Lower boot, Med Stiff bellows, some crunchy toes
TX. Lower boot, Soft bellows
TX Pro. High boot, Soft bellows

There seems to be a fair amount of critisism on this site that the TX / Pro are too soft... How soft is too soft? That leaves the Shiver (I'm scared of the toe crunch issues) or the Comp (no walk mode).

For reference I'll be driving Revs and Lotus 120s and ski 50:50 Resort / touring for turns.

Thanks,

B.

[bornaginalpiner]

[Danno]

[bornaginalpiner]

Hi Danno, Read your post about the TX Pro just as I am drinking the Prohpet Kool-Aid since people are saying the Prophet is low-volume. I have found that the Scarpa duckbill boots are the best fit for me and was going to go with the TX Pro as my NTN boot before I started drinking the kool-aid. So, do you have a narrow foot? Also, is it the size that makes you prefer the Pro over the Prophet?
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If your not falling, your not wasting your energy getting up.