Ski pole length; pointer.

[Harris]

I don't mean to tell anyone how to tele, but one mistake the less than expert folks all seem to do is that they struggle with their pole technique (it always makes me cringe seeing someone with pole tips forward and up, thinking they will put an eye out or something). Whether on telemarks or alpine, proper pole plant technique is critical to skiing well. But there is one huge difference between alpine and tele pole planting; DO NOT tele with poles that are either at touring or alpine height; it both messes up the turn or makes you look like a praying mantis after a bottle of whiskey. With high-speed GS groomer turns this really doesn't matter; most folks aren't planting in this type of turn. However, in short radius, quick, and/or slower turns the pole plant is done at the deepest point of the turn; i.e. when you are low. Like alpine, your pole length should not put the grip at or above your ear level. Instead use stupid short pole lengths so that the grip is slightly above the waist. Second flaw of the newbie and intermediate... DON'T LEARN TO TURN ON FLAT SLOPES. Telemark turns need momentum. If you see an expert flicking light side-to-sides on the flats it is only that they have learned from years of skiing other, steeper slopes how to not cob up when the skis are vague, and really said expert is doing what is known as a faux tele; it uses a different weight balancing than a real tele, meaning in a faux tele the foot is back, but not really performing a functioning part of the turn; said skier has simply mastered not letting the inside ski track all over in an relatively unweighted and upright positioning. It is a style statement rather than functional telemark, and it is the hardest thing to emulate if you don't know the turn or the feel of the skis very well. And last pointer: DO NOT TURN YOUR SHOULDERS INTO THE TURN or have them hovering over the front foot. The turn like the uncoil effect of keeping shoulders square with the fall line, and the rear foot needs a lot of weight. In the leather and pin days to turn them well required approx. 80% rear foot at the deepest part of the turn. Today with active less so.

[MikeK]

Does this look right?

[connyro]

Does this look right?

Hmmm. Looks like a new-to-tele skier trying to figure it out. Timid form and hands are awfully high.

[Johnny]

Yeah, just like you say Harris... Without being aware, Ron is demonstrating here all the common mistakes of a new tele skier:



- His poles are way too long for tele or even alpine (Those are NOT adjustable or XC poles)
- Hands are way too high in the air, one is above shoulders
- He is using his upper body to turn instead of the lower body
- Shoulders facing the turning direction instead of the fall line
- Zero angulation
- His skis are skidding down the fall line instead of carving
- Rear foot way too far in the back
- Improper balance
- Loose stance

But hey, trying to turn on a groomed green run with beefy T2 plastic boots is not an easy thing...
I guess the picture of me with my hands in the air is next? I guess that was the introduction?

[MikeK]

He looks like he's spear fishing.



I bet he is visualizing fish flowing down the fall line and stabbing at each one as he turns his skis.

Is the tape on the nose considered good technique?

[MikeK]

There is so much that is confusing to me about all of this.

So why can't you make a true telemark if you are going slow?

I was trying something last time I skied and I was making a hairpin turn around a tree at the end of my little runs. I wasn't going fast at all at the end and I had a lot of weight on my rear ski. I was skidding the skis to make them turn that tight but I was able to pivot right around the tree going very slowly and turn about 180 degrees to a stop. I'd say my radius of the turn was about 3m. If I were to do that same thing with no weight on the rear ski it would just go straight and drag.

Prior to that little drill I was making some very large radius, more carved turns without much speed. Again I had a lot of weight on my back foot and when I didn't could tell you just looking at my tracks because my hind foot wasn't tracking as tight a radius as it should have been. The front ski gets some skid and turns tight but the rear ski makes a lazy long radius. When the weight is right, both tracks become more concentric because both skis are attempting to carve about the same theoretical center.

[connyro]

Yeah, just like you say Harris... Without being aware, Ron is demonstrating here all the common mistakes of a new tele skier:



- His poles are way too long for tele or even alpine (Those are NOT adjustable or XC poles)
- Hands are way too high in the air, one is above shoulders
- He is using his upper body to turn instead of the lower body
- Shoulders facing the turning direction instead of the fall line
- Zero angulation
- His skis are skidding down the fall line instead of carving
- Rear foot way too far in the back
- Improper balance
- Loose stance

But hey, trying to turn on a groomed green run with beefy T2 plastic boots is not an easy thing...
I guess the picture of me with my hands in the air is next? I guess that was the introduction?

You mean this photo?
I think that once you get on steep, tight slopes like LJ's infamous photo, arms/poles tend to start a'flapping more. On a super-mellow wide-open slope, with packed snow like the photo at the top of the page, not so much. In that case, it looks like the skier is not balanced well (no weight on rear ski, upper body leaning back) and timidly skidding turns. There's really no comparison between the two skiers. One is athletic and aggressive, while the other is passive and unbalanced.

[MikeK]

What about this guy?

[Harris]

Connro... I personally think that like alpine the steeper and/or more difficult the terrian the more good pole technique is absolutely critical to properly initiating a solid turn and if the arms are up, and the poles are stabbing, there are some serious flaws going on in the basic technique department, probably including not having proper pole lengths. IMO. I'm 5'11" and I tele with 110 cm pole lengths. They are set very short. When I alpine turn the boards I set my length to 120 cm. yep, that big of a difference. I wouldn't alpine with too long of poles, why then telemark with them too tall for the position? A common flaw I see with novice telemarkers.

MikeK. I think you are missing my point. I didn't say tele can't be done slow, I'm saying it is difficult to learn on flat slopes at slow speed. I brought this up because last week I watched a guy trying to learn to tele on a cat track. He was giving it hell, but really struggling to stay in ballance, and was having to do the equivalent of a telemark stem Christie to change direction. It was painfully sad to watch, but I'll give the guy credit for trying to learn. Also, unless you are turning GS length turns I doubt anyone is actually carving a tele turn, Edge yes, carve no. My K2s have a 17 meter turn radius ability, which puts it in a carving arc capability of a slalom ski, and they are very quick skis that edge well, but to actually leave a solid arc in the snow at that radius you have to pressure a single ski as an alpiner would to get it to bend to that radius, which can't be done if using 2 skis to turn. "Carving short radius turns" on tele skis is a misnomer.

Yep, all those pictures are true, cringe-worthy "mad stabber" shots. I see that and I want to do them a favor and take their poles away from them before they hurt themselves; like they teach little kids in ski schools. Just kidding.

[MikeK]

Yeah I get you. I don't want to get into the semantics of a pure carved turn, a less skidded turn and 'carving'.

What I meant by carved turn is leaving two tracks with little smearing or skidding, or in powder leaving a single track with little wash at the apex. I know that now that term means leaving two tiny rail tracks and requires a lot of skill and the right skis. Also carving I guess has the connotation of <15m radius.

As for poles, doesn't seem to matter much to me. I'm carrying over my latest Alpine teachings which is really keeping the hands low, forward (like you are about to catch a ball) and letting them just drag. I don't pay much attention to keeping them level to the ground although I did take an advanced lesson a few years back and the instructor did give me some drills for that. It didn't seem to make a huge difference in my skiing although perhaps it looks nicer. I know old-school racers used to focus on that one a lot.

I was thinking about this today while waiting in line at the store after work. One thing I focus on, or really try to keep is my knee over the ball of my foot in the vertical sense. That keeps you on your balls and gives you a very efficient transfer of forces to the ski edge. I've noticed sometimes I let that front ski get too far ahead and my shin is more vertical... blerp... I'm done. Lost the front ski right there. Same goes for the back if it goes back to far. If I'm not pushing my weight through a line via my hip/knee/BOF then I'm not efficient at applying the pressure.