Incomplete skiing. No continuity between shuffling on the flats, a line to ride uphill and groomed snow downhill

[FourthCoast]

@MSU Alum and @Montana St Alum

I am not sure who fish was suggesting I ask, so I mentioned you both.

The photos below are what I have now.

If I was made of money I would probably go for new NTN boots, bindings and new skis. But I do not have a bottomless ski budget.

I was thinking I could get a good resort ski, an active 75mm binding and try to get more use out of these old T2s.

Are the boots also no good?

I like this current setup a lot for skiing ungroomed XC trails that are narrow and turny, even icy. But what I can't seem to do is get a nice carved turn out of this rig. I can skid and stop on iced up groomers, but I can't get them to carve even on soft, fresh, groomed snow.

[Montana St Alum]

Montana St Alum here....let me ask my buddy MSU Alum!
I'm joking. I was MSU Alum and lost my password, so I "evolved"!

One thing you could try, as you look at gear, is an aggressive tune. I'm an outlier on the bell-shaped curve for a number of reasons. One is that I tune my skis very aggressively and don't detune the tips and tails.

Most of these skis have a 1-degree bottom bevel, to help reduce catching an edge, and they combine that with a 1-degree side bevel. That results in a 90-degree angle at the edge. I like the 1-degree bottom bevel, but I now use a 3-degree side bevel, so that gives me an 88-degree sharp edge angle. In order to ensure the side bevel changes, I mark it with an indelible marker. That way, as I cut in and change it from 1-degree to 3-degrees I can monitor it. You can always just go to the shovel and tail and that will ensure they are "detuned". If you tape each ski front and back, to the point you want the tune to end, it will help ensure they are tuned equally. You could also start with 2-degree on the side, to see if that is sufficient. It's not irreversible, regardless.

The sidewall can interfere with this process, so I got a sidewall cutter.
This is the one I have:


I would not say those boots are bad, but they certainly aren't optimized for icy resort skiing. If you are looking at getting a more supportive 75mm for resort skiing and a 75mm binding that is more supportive, you may want to price those together compared to something like a Scarpa Tx Pro NTN boot and an NTN binding. Having said that, I see the 22 designs vice is only $259 and that's half the price of an NTN. Pretty significant.

If you're open to new boots and bindings, you might (after tuning skis) get the vices and try them with your boots. I expect the binding purchase will be followed by a boot purchase as well because I think you'll notice the boots bending laterally with those bindings. But if that works, you can incrementally go from tuned skis, to tuned + bindings, to tuned + bindings + boots.

There was a time when I was pushing 185cm Armada JJ's (at 116mm underfoot) with Scarpa T2 Ecos and was quite happy with the combo. The Ecos are about $100 less than Scarpa's T1 (75mm) or Tx Pro (NTN), I think. Given what you're used to, you may find this combo the most comfortable. Down the road, with that combo, I think you could transition to a more "carve friendly" ski and the boot/binding combo would be fine.

I hope that all made sense. Anyway, good luck!

Edit: If those skis are predrilled with inserts for a 4-hole pattern, like a G3 it may preclude mounting a 22 Designs binding. You could tune, get new boots and just run the bindings you have. That may be enough of an improvement to be very noticeable. Then, if you get different skis, mount them with Vices. I say Vices, as they are solid and inexpensive. But they aren't touring bindings. They would really be resort only. The Axl or Switchback (which I'm not that familiar with. It may have a 4-hole pattern that's compatible).

[FourthCoast]

@Montana St Alum

I appreciate the help and advice. Thank you.

Unfortunately I am more confused than ever. Earlier you said, "I'm sure they are worn out". Now, if I understood correctly, you think I should try things in this order:

1. Tune my current skis and try them.
2. Try Vise bindings on these skis with the same boots.
3. Try new boots, Scarpa T2 Ecos, but keep using the skis from my photos with new bindings from #2
4. Try 185cm Armada JJ's (at 116mm underfoot) with Scarpa T2 Ecos and Vise bindings.

After looking at my photos did you change your mind and decide these skis are still good enough that you recommend changing everything else first, before the skis?

[Montana St Alum]

Haha, my typical overly wordy responses are often very hard to wade through! Sorry.

If you're not on a tight budget and can swing it:
Buy new skis, bindings and boots. I think this is the optimum solution.

T2 Ecos and Vices on new skis would be a big step up from what you're on now for resort skiing and would be a reasonably priced option. Get Axl's if you need a tour function.

But, if you are on a really tight budget (I've raised 3 kids, so I get that!), you can try to proceed incrementally to save money.

So:
1. Yes, tune the skis and try them. Reassess after that. If you're happy, you're done.
If not
2. Add new boots and see how they ski. If you're happy with the results, you can hold off on new skis and bindings.
If not
3. If you're not happy with the performance, get new skis and bindings.

4. DO NOT get Armada JJ's!

I have this ski for my very hardpack bump days in Utah. We don't have ice, but I find the grip on these to be very good.
For $250, I think they are a steal.
https://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/rossign ... PLA_Skiing
But this is just to give you an idea of what's available in a low-price range. You'll have to research skis based on what your priorities are.

I'm kind of guessing a bit, as I don't know your budget and I'm not sure if those skis are predrilled in a 4-hole pattern. I suspect they are. If so, that pattern is incompatible with the 22 Designs hole pattern.

[lowangle al]

Hey forth coast, it might be an optical illusion, but your boot heels don't look like they are centered on the ski. Otherwise it looks like a good set up to me.

[lowangle al]

I think it was an illusion after looking at the last photo. So now my question is, What ski binding combo have you been able to carve on in those conditions? If we knew that we might have an answer for you.

[FourthCoast]

I think it was an illusion after looking at the last photo. So now my question is, What ski binding combo have you been able to carve on in those conditions? If we knew that we might have an answer for you.

Al,

The significant rocker launch makes the boots look off center in one photo. I think I got the mount reasonably straight along the centerline of the ski.

The last skis I owned before life took me away from the sport for a bit were these:

https://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/atomic-sx-b5-2006

Atomic SX: B5 Skis 2006 (I still have them if anyone wants them!)

When I got back into skiing I was on those for about two years. Climbing up and down the hill teaching my daughter to ski forced me to notice how heavy the skis are. They are some lead sleds. If you put them up on edge they will carve over any groomed snow or ice or whatever. But like I said they are HEAVY and as far as I can tell that binding is forever married to that ski.

Bending down to help my young skier and wanting to go up hill more easily is part of what got me thinking about the telemark style. It also made the green runs more fun.

Before my old Alpine boots became completely unusable I demoed some 90-ish Nordica Enforcers and the Elan Rip Sticks in 90-ish and 100-ish waists. I could comfortably carve turns on each of those skis using an Alpine setup, but it was very clear that 100mm under foot is way too big to have any fun on groomers.

[lowangle al]

FC have you tried P turns with them? It may take a little more finesse and somewhat softer snow then what you were able to do on alpine gear but they should carve turns. If you're just doing T turns I would try some P turns to get a better feel for what the ski can do.

[FourthCoast]

FC have you tried P turns with them? It may take a little more finesse and somewhat softer snow then what you were able to do on alpine gear but they should carve turns. If you're just doing T turns I would try some P turns to get a better feel for what the ski can do.

We finally have a good base of real snow. I have been back resort skiing on some good soft groomed snow twice since I posted complaining that I can't carve.

As you predicted, al, on soft snow I can carve some GS-sized parallel turns with these skis. I can't help but feel like any little bump will send me right over the front of my skis when I am hooked up in a parallel carve with my heels free.

I was able to sort of carve some turns in a telemark stance but I couldn't shake the voice in my head saying "these bindings don't release!" while trying to learn a new style that requires some speed. I was not able to link two turns together. Maybe I am just not as good at skiing as I remember?

So I have decided two things.

1. I need to get over being a chicken sh-t and learn to carve these skis before I spend more money on gear.

and

2. If I really want to carve turns on lift-served ice then I need to get a very damp (and likely heavy) ski made for this purpose.

[fisheater]

What about picking an easier slope?
You really need to cut yourself some slack. Although we have had some snow, the resort you ski at can get pretty glacial. Well at least if it’s the place I’m thinking of.
I really wish I could direct you someplace easier. Maybe Hickory Hills in Traverse City? You really can’t learn to make nice turns if you’re just trying to survive. Ski classes are generally conducted on terrain that the students can handle easily. The idea being to learn how things should feel. Once you learn the movement, then you challenge yourself on more difficult terrain.
Good luck, you just need to find the right slope to practice on