Outcast vs Meidjo, my thoughts with far too little experience

[fisheater]

Hey Woods,
I hope you keep posting your journey into NTN. I’ve been an observer for a few years now. I didn’t think I was interested, but I have recently decided I need to ride chairs more regularly. It’s just been too many years of not enough turns, I’m embarrassed by my skiing. So for now my heavy set up is T-4 and Tindan, but I can see a typical resort set up down the road.
I have been talking to resort Telemarkers the past couple years this few days I was at the ski hill. The people I run into are mostly Outlaw skiers. Most primarily ride chairs, but are happy touring in Outlaws as well.
My question for you, what are your thoughts for touring and inbounds skiing on the T2 vs. the TX Pro?

[DG99]

Hmmm. I’m a little perplexed, I guess the Meidjo isn’t as rigid of an interface, like there is some flex when edging and the like. Vs. the Outlaw.

I also was saddened by the reported icing problems with the Meidjo, which is fixed by getting a closed box thing, which then doesn’t allow you to tour with the heel flat…. It’s intriguing still though especially as apparently Scarpa is expected to come out with a T2 equivalent boot for NTN/TTS? ***

Active vs. neutral just boils down to more vs. less resistance to lifting your heel and heading your trailing knee towards the ski.

I just recently, skiing alpine, hooked my ski under a big ass branch hidden under the snow, immediately stopped that ski and the binding very smoothly released. Zip! I didn’t get too far on just the one ski…. Anyways that scenario happened once before to me, a good reason for a release mechanism! I don’t know if Meidjo would release in that direction.

I haven’t abandoned alpine all these years.

***Dostie says mysterious new Scarpa boot fall 2024 or later:

[Woodserson]

Hmmm. I’m a little perplexed, I guess the Meidjo isn’t as rigid of an interface, like there is some flex when edging and the like. Vs. the Outlaw.

Hmmm, i don't know. I'm not ruling out operator error. They paralleled just fine. They flex differently than what I'm used to compared to the 22D.
Telemark is so great/dumb, every binding is different and NTN isn't immune to this.

And you are correct, Meidjo releases laterally, it wouldn't have saved you from the tree grab

[Stephen]

And you are correct, Meidjo releases laterally, it wouldn't have saved you from the tree grab

Maybe I missed something from a previous post, but for release, are you saying they don’t release in a forward fall?
I’m pretty sure they do.

[Woodserson]

And you are correct, Meidjo releases laterally, it wouldn't have saved you from the tree grab

Maybe I missed something from a previous post, but for release, are you saying they don’t release in a forward fall?
I’m pretty sure they do.

I don't see any way for it to release forward (release the duckbutt in a straight line towards the tip). And TelemarkDown told me the same two days ago, when we were talking about tip dive and I was warned they won't come off if catching a tip. On a basic level wouldn't a forward release would be counter to telemark? We are lunging forward all the time

Maybe I'm wrong

[JohnSKepler]

This might help:


As far as "power", I think of it as the ability to use the stiffness of the boot - especially torsionally - and tightness of the connection between the boot and the binding, to force the ski precisely onto its edge. I'm sure there are other aspects as well, but this is primary, for me.

I watched the video. Lots of ways of arriving at a roughly equivalent tool! I see that an active binding is going to supply forces to hold down your forefoot while a neutral binding is not. I have also learned through experience that holding down the forefoot generates the pressure on the tip of the trailing ski that makes it behave. (You can really see this in action when going from a soft to a hard flexor on an Xplore binding.)

So, I can deduce from this that activity, regardless of pivot point, is a qualitative 'measure' of how much 'help' the binding is providing to pressure the tip of the trailing ski. The pivot point is just how the activity is created. I can also see that, depending on snow conditions, you might want to adjust activity. Soft snow, less activity. Firmer snow, more activity. I guess activity, if you were going to actually measure it, would have units of torque.

With the Xplore binding and a stiff flexor, the binding is very active but the amount of tip pressure is determined by boot stiffness and stance. Moving your leading knee forward lifts the heel more and generates more tip pressure. The soft flexor is a lot less active. With my Meidjo the stiffness is a function of both the spring settings and the stiffness of the boot bellows. Both of these, as well as stance and weighting, factor into the amount of activity (torque) generated.

Is that a reasonable, simplified understanding?

[Montana St Alum]

This might help:


As far as "power", I think of it as the ability to use the stiffness of the boot - especially torsionally - and tightness of the connection between the boot and the binding, to force the ski precisely onto its edge. I'm sure there are other aspects as well, but this is primary, for me.

I watched the video. Lots of ways of arriving at a roughly equivalent tool! I see that an active binding is going to supply forces to hold down your forefoot while a neutral binding is not. I have also learned through experience that holding down the forefoot generates the pressure on the tip of the trailing ski that makes it behave. (You can really see this in action when going from a soft to a hard flexor on an Xplore binding.)

So, I can deduce from this that activity, regardless of pivot point, is a qualitative 'measure' of how much 'help' the binding is providing to pressure the tip of the trailing ski. The pivot point is just how the activity is created. I can also see that, depending on snow conditions, you might want to adjust activity. Soft snow, less activity. Firmer snow, more activity. I guess activity, if you were going to actually measure it, would have units of torque.

With the Xplore binding and a stiff flexor, the binding is very active but the amount of tip pressure is determined by boot stiffness and stance. Moving your leading knee forward lifts the heel more and generates more tip pressure. The soft flexor is a lot less active. With my Meidjo the stiffness is a function of both the spring settings and the stiffness of the boot bellows. Both of these, as well as stance and weighting, factor into the amount of activity (torque) generated.

Is that a reasonable, simplified understanding?

Yeah, I think that sums it up well. I don't change activity based on conditions. I have enough on my plate already!
I set it and forget it.

[Stephen]

And you are correct, Meidjo releases laterally, it wouldn't have saved you from the tree grab

Maybe I missed something from a previous post, but for release, are you saying they don’t release in a forward fall?
I’m pretty sure they do.

1. Coming back to correct my statement, above. No forward release, only lateral, at the heel.

2. For me, I have been able to increase “activity” (tighten the spring setting) as I have increase my skill level. My back ski used to sometimes slide forward, under me, which doesn’t happen anymore.

3. With warmer weather, I have been having a terrible time with icing / boot jack. Just an awful, day ending problem. Some could be fixed by the Powder Casing* mod, but I don’t think that completely solves the problem of snow freezing to the metal parts in a certain temperature range.
My first attempt at solving the problem will be silicone spray.
* https://www.freeheellife.com/products/c ... g-kit-pair
.

[Montana St Alum]

This works well:
"High Temperature Teflon Tape 1 inch x 33 feet PTFE Adhesive Teflon Tape" on Amazon. $7.99
You can buy it in various widths.
I've also used silicone spray on bindings before I switched to NTN and it worked well.

Neither have worked 100%, but they improve the snow shedding.

[wabene]

^^^ good advice. I've used silicone spray as well, but mostly just for icing and squeaking bindings not on the whole top sheet.

I've recently been using RainX instead of silicone. It is a water based wax instead of the solvent based silicone. I have been spraying the RainX on the whole top sheet and binding. It seems to work similarly and like silicone it works best if you do it well in advance and let it dry.