Free-pivot Nordic touring??

[dnt_upton]

If you are interested in free-pivot bindings, I would urge you to demo them though because they are really weird when touring if you are used to the resistance from 3-pins or even NNN.

I would second that and even be more specific, try Voile Switchbacks (not the X2 version if you are coming from 3 pins and looking to find a cable binding that is close to that feeling). And I'd second that everyone I know who made that transition found the free pivot touring a bit awkward at first. If you've done AT skinning, then the transition will likely be quick.

I've never tried nnn-bc, only 3 pins. But you guys have me curious if I can find a rental shop.

[lilcliffy]

To me NNN BC is A LOT more powerful than pins on the downhill... It offers much more stability, leverage and control. Lateral stiffness is way better than pins... I just don't understand pinners saying they can't ski it. It's much easier. I can't believe I didn't switch before... The only bad thing is that they are about 60g heavier... ; )

Hey, I just sold 3 pairs of Voile 3pc and bought 4 pairs of NNNBC...

Speaking of NNNBC, do you guys use different rubber plugs with different density? Is there such a thing to play with resistance?

It's cool that you are willing to say this man...I too find NNN-BC to be surprisingly powerful...and despite all the traditional assumptions...I too find that there is more torsional strength than a plane-jane 3-pin binding...

Although I use to think that 75mm-3-pin was the next step up in downhill power from NNN-BC...I now believe that the next step up is something much more powerful than either.

The recent Norwegian tests of 3-pin vs. NNN-BC suggest that downhill stability and power is more dependent on the specific boot, than either binding.

As far as switching out bumpers to increase resistance- I have not experimented- but have read that it does make a significant difference. My understanding was that the stock NNN-BC bumpers were at the highest level of resistance? I thought that the different density bumpers were designed for track-orientated NNN? I could easily be wrong! The degree of difference I think depends on the binding, and the intended skiing performance. For example, the track orientated NNN has the toe bar mounted further forward than NNN-BC. Therefore- the binding resistance of NNN-BC can be engaged with just the ball of your foot (similar to 3-pin). But unlike 3-pin, on NNN-BC you can fully extend the Nordic stride right out to your toes. I just love that freedom and range of motion for K&G touring!

[lilcliffy]

The only bad thing is that they are about 60g heavier... ; )

Did you measure the difference in your boots to see if 60g disappeared from the NNN BC Alaska?

Very perceptive question- my bet is the NNN-BC version is lighter without the Vibram sole.

[lilcliffy]

Another option that I've been looking long and hard at is the TeleBulldog Spike 3-pin. (http://www.shop.burntmtn.com/SPIKE-3-pin-007.htm) It seems to be much heavier-duty than regular Voile 3-pins (6 hole mounting pattern) and a rather large toe box that some say gives much more resistance than a regular 3-pin. I would like to try them with Excursion-class boots. But I wonder how they tour...anyone have info on these bindings?

Whoa..never seen these babies before...

[Johnny]

Oh, you're right... The duckbill itself must be about 60g...!
I just turned my vintage penny scale into a ski gear scale... I'll check tonight...!

You want a proof? Does pictures in action count as scientific proof?

Yeah that's what I read about the NNNBC rubbers too... I dunno, it might be fun even without them... I'll try when snow will be back...

I've had a few pairs of Burnt Mtn Spikes... They're fun...! They clamp your 3-pin boot in there like no other binding on the market. And the step-in function works really well. Very unfortunately, they are a bit too heavy for leathers...

[connyro]

I've had a few pairs of Burnt Mtn Spikes... They're fun...! They clamp your 3-pin boot in there like no other binding on the market. And the step-in function works really well. Very unfortunately, they are a bit too heavy for leathers...

Too heavy for Asolo Extremes or the equivalent even? If so,that's disappointing. How do they tour, as in how much resistance do they have while kicking and gliding? Any issues with the pins going into the boot holes when they get snow packed? I am interested in using them on Voile V6 BCs or Vectors. I would be great to get away from switching modes and using heel throws for touring and doing laps, but I like a little more power than regular 3-pins for fatter skis...

[Johnny]

Well, it's not that heavy... I guess I just got more picky about weight now that I'm old and weak...

In fact, I skied all my Spikes with my Asolo Extremes...

I mounted them on X-Terrains, which were way too heavy for my taste... Mounted another pair with Guides, but I became obssesed with light weight and went back to Super Telemarks... Tried another pair for my Alaskas but even with shims, I couldn't get the Spikes to fit Alpina's thin duckbill...

It's hard to explain, but the cup and the way it clamps the duckbill *seems* to be better than any other 3p binding. I don't recall if the bail was covering more space on the duckbill or if it was the pin/bail placement, but you could definitely feel more 'glued' to the ski... The locking mechanism is super tight. And each binding is mounted to the ski with 6 screws. But it might be just feelings... The binding is a bit high too because of the step-in function... I like my leathers as close to the ski as possible... The closer to the ski, the more intense is the feeling... ; )

They tour pretty much like any other 3p, but with a tiny bit more weight. Never had any issues with snow packing... I always spray some lube on my BC gear... Grab a pair, you'll love them!

[MikeK]

Make sure you use silicone based lube (not petroleum based) for that stuff. The petroleum stuff can damage rubber and plastic parts.

[connyro]

Well, it's not that heavy... I guess I just got more picky about weight now that I'm old and weak...

In fact, I skied all my Spikes with my Asolo Extremes...

I mounted them on X-Terrains, which were way too heavy for my taste... Mounted another pair with Guides, but I became obssesed with light weight and went back to Super Telemarks... Tried another pair for my Alaskas but even with shims, I couldn't get the Spikes to fit Alpina's thin duckbill...

It's hard to explain, but the cup and the way it clamps the duckbill *seems* to be better than any other 3p binding. I don't recall if the bail was covering more space on the duckbill or if it was the pin/bail placement, but you could definitely feel more 'glued' to the ski... The locking mechanism is super tight. And each binding is mounted to the ski with 6 screws. But it might be just feelings... The binding is a bit high too because of the step-in function... I like my leathers as close to the ski as possible... The closer to the ski, the more intense is the feeling... ; )

They tour pretty much like any other 3p, but with a tiny bit more weight. Never had any issues with snow packing... I always spray some lube on my BC gear... Grab a pair, you'll love them!

Thanks for the good info JL! Not sure if I want to spend the extra dough for a binding that works about as well as a regular 3-pin. I'm not SO old that I need to have a step in function...yet...

[timpete]

Dusting off a really old thread because I have a related question:

I am setting up my first set of 75mm telemark skis. I'm motivated by increasing my ability to handle varied snow conditions (resort / chopped powder / ice / deep powder) over my FT62+NNN-BC+Alaskas setup. I'm sticking with leather boots (Alicos) but planning to buy a wider ski like Annum or Rossi BC120. My use case will be purely uphill skinning followed by downhill, but most of that skinning shouldn't exceed 20 deg incline or so except for short bits.

My question is (never having skied 75mm): Do I need free-pivot binding to skin up 15-20 deg (say, with a 55mm heel bar)? I hope the answer is no, I'll have enough toe flex in the standard 75mm clamp with leather boots. Would love to get input validating that I can save a few hundred $$ and just go with Voile Cable bindings vs switchbacks.

My understanding is that free pivot is only really required for really stiff soled plastic tele boots and with leather boots I won't need too much toe flex to skin/walk up a slope on a moderate heel wire/bar. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I just want to replicate range of motion I have skinning up moderate pitches with NNN-BC, red flexors, Alaskas, with 55mm heel wire piece, which is just fine.