How skinny is too skinny for XCD

[BEVL]

Looking for advice on width of skis for XCD. Found a pair of metal edge skis and boots locally for pretty cheap, but the tip width is only 60mm, with waist width of 50mm. Is this too skinny for off trail XCD skiing? I have only skate skied on groomed trails before this. Would I be able to get out on some rolling terrain and start to practice tele style turns?

[greatgt]

While back Bardini a skier out West died in an accident while Cliff and rock climbing. "you know it is a NORDIC turn." Turns out he saw it but his acolytes went to Parallel and modified telemark turns. Some didn't. Telemark is a NORDIC turn of wonder. Best served in the raw, not on Alpine trails. You learn if out there watching others do the deed. You practice it as much as you can and a few at a "closed" ski areas is not too bad. Telemark is more go with the flow and each of us will have a different take and different styles. Remember, Free the heel free the mind. TM

[JohnSKepler]

While not always true, narrower skis, with more emphasis on the kick-and-glide aspect of Nordic skiing tend to have fairly high camber. I even think it's sometimes called double-camber. (The camber is the arch in the skis that bends upward, which you probably know.)

Lots of camber = harder to turn. Turning generally requires engaging the edge of the ski. In order to engage the edge of a high camber ski you really have to bend it a lot. You have to push the ski to get it to bend, then lay it over so the centrifugal force of the turn keeps the ski bent. The get the centrifugal force up you need to have higher speed. To put it all together, especially when learning, you need really good conditions - something I've not seen here in Utah yet, this year! Maybe, just maybe, this weekend. Being an incredible athlete makes the whole process look a lot easier, something I am not, and I've seen athletes turn high camber skis with what appears to be very little effort. Whenever I try to do things I see the athletes do I wind up on my ass.

That all leads to a some competing aspects of the learning process. When learning, because control is poor, one tries to go slower. But, skinny skis means you need to go faster to turn them. Also, good conditions mean deeper snow and easier control. Skinny skis need shallower snow which means less control. That all adds up to needing to control your speed to stay safe for yourself and those around you while being forced to ski in skis that require you to go faster in conditions that are faster and harder to control. I'm a sample space of one but, ask me how I know this!

So, starting off with skinny skis is certainly doable, and more doable if you are a great athlete, but it didn't work for me! And I may not be a great athlete, but I ain't no slouch, either.

[corlay]

was out on my "new to me" Asnes MR48's this past weekend for the first time.
They are an *amazing* ski - for their intended purpose, which is a versatile, BC-leaning ski that is happy within machined tracks *and* off-track.
BUT.... given their thinner geometry and more flexible tip and 3/4 metal edge, etc - they are *not* a "trail-blazing" ski. Not by a long-shot. I would say, once fresh snow exceeds 6", a different ski will perform *WAY* batter. But for a good, consolidated base, even with a few inches of fresh on top, these 48's absolutely *fly* and are a LOT of fun.
But if there is a good, recent snow, and no grooming or even "consolidation", I'm picking a different, wider ski (Gamme or TR78, likely)
I would also agree that a *not* high-cambered ski is better suited for "tele-turns".
I would consider my use of MR48 and Gamme as more "steering" than "tele-turning". But neither is marketed as a "turny ski". These are meant to lay down miles, kick-and-glide.

[Musk Ox]

Yes! In good conditions, my wife can make fairly elegant (to me!) turns on MR48s (48mm waist). She can edge down very steep inclines and do fast stops in a Telemark stance.

[Tom M]

Earlier this month I took a set of Julie's vintage semi skinny skis on and outing and posted a video on my YouTube channel. The skis are Karhu Odyssey with a 67-55-60 sidecut. They are a metal edged ski that were shorter, had twin bottom grooves, and a stiffer camber when compared to similar width skis of the era. Julie loves how they ski when conditions are icy. Her primary use case is for skiing the Nordic groomed trail up Game creek. The Game creek trail is a lot of fun with a big climb to the turnaround then a long downhill run back to the car. It can be tricky if it is hard and icy. They fit in the track and give her better downhill control to check her speed. In this video I'm skiing the Karhu's on an ungroomed but packed snowmobile trail and also do a few off-trail tele turns in perfect soft snow conditions. If you watch the whole video, you will also see me skating some wide sections of the trail and using a step turn or two on the corners. Can they be used off trail for XCD? Well of course. Are they ideal? Only if you want a ski quiver of one and ski both in groomed tracks and off trail. If the snow is soft and deep, you will be skiing them in the snow and not on top of the snow. That is not a bad thing, just different and a bit slower if the snow is very deep. One thing is for sure, it takes a lot more balance to ski skinny skis off trail than it does a fat wide XCD ski. Would I skate my Sbound 98's on a wide section of trail? Probably not. Would I take my Sbound 98's to ski the Game Creek Groomed Trail? Absolutely not. I wouldn't pick a skinny highly cambered ski over a softer, curvier, wider ski if I planned an off trail XCD outing in deep soft snow, but if your ski conditions consist of hard snow in rolling terrain with short downhill runs, the kind of conditions where parallel, snowplow or step turns are the tool of choice, then a skinny ski with metal edges is ideal

[BEVL]

Exciting! I look forward to watching the video

[fgd135]

Many skiers learned the "modern" telemark turn in the 1980s and early 90's on 60mm skis with marginal sidecut. The technique of turning these is different that current accepted technique for wider skis with massive sidecuts that almost turn themselves.
Thousands of miles of trails in the Colorado backcountry have been traveled with that kind of gear, by thousands of skiers...and on chairlift-served slopes, too.
Speaking for myself, I've skied many many days over several years on skis like that, off piste and on.
Suggest you learn that older version of the tele turn, it will only improve your technique if you eventually transition to other equipment. Plenty of Youtube-ish instructional videos out there these days.

[Lhartley]

Many skiers learned the "modern" telemark turn in the 1980s and early 90's on 60mm skis with marginal sidecut. The technique of turning these is different that current accepted technique for wider skis with massive sidecuts that almost turn themselves.
Thousands of miles of trails in the Colorado backcountry have been traveled with that kind of gear, by thousands of skiers...
Speaking for myself, I've skied many many days over several years on skis like that, off piste and on.
Suggest you learn that older version of the tele turn, it will only improve your technique if you eventually transition to other equipment. Plenty of Youtube-ish instructional videos out there these days.

This one comes to mind, I believe Gamme is on Nansens (76/56/66) in this video

[fisheater]

Yes! In good conditions, my wife can make fairly elegant (to me!) turns on MR48s (48mm waist). She can edge down very steep inclines and do fast stops in a Telemark stance.

My congratulations to your wife. I use my MT 51 for thin cover and tracks only. To my mind those noodle tips are for tracks. Give me Gamme for making turns on a mile eating ski. I can use Gamme’s stiff tip and rocker to make the ski bend and actually turn. I would not think of taking the MT 51 out in ideal conditions