Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

bark-eater wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:40 am

fisheater wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:54 am

That Purl wax is a glide wax, grip wax does not adhere well to glide wax. I used to use paraffin for winter storage, now I just use Polar.

I picked the Purl because it isn't represented as a glide wax. If it is what sort of base conditioning wax options are there? Or is straight canning paraffin a fine base ? Just starting with polar on "fresh" bases seems like it would get expensive for multible skis.

I had a rock ski that didn’t work out, a new rock ski, and skis at 54, 62, and 86 mm under foot. The 62 mm underfoot has a 97 mm shovel, I believe the 86 mm has a 125 mm shovel.
I started the season out with a new tin of Polar. It is somewhere around a half a tin now.
For me it isn’t expensive. Wax is on sale right now at Pioneer Midwest .com

I contacted Purl and the 3-in-1 is definitely a glide wax. I'm inclined to use Swix BP99 as a base prep and put Polar over that after scraping and brushing in the spring. I'd be interested in hearing any actual down sides to that plan, besides it being unnecessary.

@bark-eater I promise this is my last comment. Kick/grip wax does not adhere well to glide wax. BP99 is a glide wax. I would not apply a glide wax in the kick wax pocket at all, ever. Since I use polar as a glide wax, and even though I sometimes ski at temperatures cold enough for polar to be my kick wax of the day. I don’t ski in temps so cold I feel the need to glide wax my tips and tails. So as a simple back country skier who doesn’t race anyone, I never apply glide wax to my skis.

So are you saying that all base prep wax is glide wax? And Polar is best put on an unwaxed ski? I'm just trying to figure this out before digging into a pile of skis. Most of these skis already have been waxed multible times, so I'm not sure if there will be a difference if they've had another waxing cycle with a soft "base prep" wax?

The first thing I would like to relate is that the backcountry technique I’ve learned here and from another source are a bit unorthodox to classic technique.
In classic technique for cross country (grip wax) skiing you have a very defined wax pocket, and a glide zone.
The wax pocket is stripped clean of all wax, then you sand it with sandpaper, you then apply kick wax binder, then you apply the kick wax of the day. The areas outside of the wax pocket are glide waxed.
When backcountry skiing we aren’t worried about tenths of a second. We just want our skis to grip well and glide well. We do things that racers don’t do like extending our kick wax far beyond the wax zone. Sometimes we extend all the way to the tip of the ski. I guess it was a common technique from the tar base wood ski days to use full length polar as a glide wax. This technique seems to allow a ski to have better grip and glide with a “colder” than normal kick wax. I do know that I became better at using kick wax when I adopted the full length, polar as glide wax technique. As I was going through this learning process, I saw that kick wax on glide wax tended to wear off quick. I also didn’t see that base wax binder didn’t really didn’t seem to make the grip wax wear any better than a polar wax did. Well it certainly is debatable whether grip wax base is better than just using polar, it isn’t debatable that full length polar as a glide was is easy, effective, and pretty simple.
If you’re seeking the ultimate glide, utilizing the glide waxing techniques you’re investigating could prove to be very effective methods of having fast skis. For me, experimenting with various kick waxes, and finding waxes that allow me to keep a smaller wax pocket and thinner kick wax applied has given more “fast ski” days. All that being said, I also have plenty of days when the wax job is just good enough. I have grip, and enough glide to enjoy the skiing.
In closing I want to be clear full length polar as a base wax is not the norm, but it is a very good backcountry technique. If you decide to use glide wax, you will be best served to keep glide wax out of you wax pocket. If you’re buying a ski wax, and it isn’t specifically called a kick or grip wax, it is a reasonable assumption that it is a glide wax.
Good luck

If I didn’t explain this well feel free to ask again. One thing I have learned is that my perfectly clear explanations are many times as clear as mud. I will keep trying
Bob

@fisheater I think you're right about base prep being a glide wax. I just got some new used Gamme's and used wax remover to clean the kick wax off, brushed the ski and then hot scraped base prep into the ski. After glide waxing the tips and tails I corked in green kick as a starter. Now after skiing a few times, kick waxing each time with things going well, today with temps in the low teens and super abrasive refrozen snow I added a few layers of green over some left over blue extra. It started out good but after about a mile and a half much of the kick wax was gone. I reapplied blue extra and finished a 5 mile ski. I think it lasted longer on the return because the crust was broken as I skied my own tracks, but my future plan is to skip the base prep in the kick zone. I'll clean and sand the zone, then iron in base binder to prep for longer lasting kick in the future.
-getting off topic, apologies.

@fisheater Thank you for the in-depth reply.

I was missing the point about "if its not grip wax, its glide wax"

So, it looks like if I take a ski and use a base prep wax to clean and store it, I will need to remove all the base prep with a base cleaner and start over again with Polar at least from the heel forward.

Are you still sanding the kick zone under the foot?

Thanks, Woody

I don’t sand.

thanks

This has all been good advice. I will now avoid putting any glide wax in the kick zone just because of the difficulty of removing it for kick wax. As per my previous post I did remove the base prep glide wax from my kick zone on the Gammes and sand it just because these new to me skis needed it. I will not be sanding it again. A new ski with good structure on the base would not need sanding in my opinion as it would hold the base binder well. Anyway ironing in base binder, two coats of polar and three coats of the wax of the day and it was extremely durable. I'm still using hot glide wax on the tips and tails. This will be my go to technique, but I'm intrigued by LC's polar wax style. I will try it next season on my new to me pair of Åsnes Tur Langrenn 210 woodies. Pine tar and polar then wax of the day under foot. They are blocked wide for the off-season in an attempt to add some camber. I had two pairs of this ski to choose from at Greg from woodenskis.com's place and I'll admit I grabbed the cosmetically beautiful pair that was a little softer. The other had amazing stiffness for a ski that old. Maybe it would be best to just go grab those too!