Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

I ordered the older ones (green/white), not the new black top sheet ones.

You’ll have fun with those. I have the previous white/red model. I am seriously considering mounting them NNN-BC, they are currently mounted 75 mm

Stephen wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:57 pm

timpete wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:27 am

… are you saying that the Voile heel piece with e.g. 58 mm bar (flipped down) actually adversely effects the feel of the boot on the ski while downhill or striding?

I don’t know, but someone else might — jyw5 probably does.

the heel lifter is totally fine and will have no adverse effects on your skiing. my point is that you don't really need frankenbindings to skin up on such a light setup. at one point I looked into doing this and realized its only needed for wider, heavier skis. anything less than 68mm underfoot, is a bit overkill. as a matter of fact, risers work against you when sidehilling especially icy sections. I have gone nearly straight up steep groomed trail with my FT62s with no problems. if you already installed them, then great. try one run with and one without and compare.

Noted, good input. I haven't mounted my bindings yet but will probably just mount the Voile heel plate with the climbing wire. It looks, as you say, that it will certainly not harm anything (if being of debatable use).

If nothing else, it gives me a solid wire loop to tie paracord to in case resort people give me trouble skiing with no ski brakes or ski leashes...

timpete wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:11 pm

Noted, good input. I haven't mounted my bindings yet but will probably just mount the Voile heel plate with the climbing wire. It looks, as you say, that it will certainly not harm anything (if being of debatable use).

If nothing else, it gives me a solid wire loop to tie paracord to in case resort people give me trouble skiing with no ski brakes or ski leashes...

thats a good solution for a leash...I thought about that last yr. let me know if that works. I am thinking of converting a pair of skis into resort use...havent decided which pair would be best. I might also consider the Nosi 76 for that.

Writing a quick update to this thread, as I started it:

I went with the Voile 58 mm heel wire with NNN-BC mounted at the balance point of 188 cm new model (black) Falketind 62s, steered with Alpina Alaskas.

I recently spent a few days skiing with this setup at Colorado resorts. First, the climbing (I skinned up a few days before the lifts open): I loved climbing with this setup. The skis feel featherweight and the leather boots are warm and comfortable. I used full length 60 mm Coltex nylon skins repurposed from use on my 210 cm USGIs. I found I only wanted to use the climbing wire for pitches approaching going straight up a single black diamond, but for these few hundred yard segments it was very nice to have. The boot does tend to "buckle" in the sole with the climbing wire up, because it's a Nordic boot with the soft sole for kick and glide. This could strain your underfoot, but didn't mine as I log 100s of km a year kick and gliding so have a very strong underfoot from Nordic track skiing. As has been said elsewhere anything not straight up the fall-line feels like wobbly high-heels with the wire up, so it's probably not required for true light backcountry climbing where you switchback rather than going straight up the fall line on a resort run. But, there's no harm to the heel wire (except two screws in heel vs one), so I'm glad I installed it in the end.

Now, the downhill: Let me first note that the conditions were not great for late season CO mountain skiing. They hadn't had significant snowfall in a ~month and so conditions were closer to midwest/east coast groomers with pushed around snow in some areas, and occasionally ice sheen below showing. (I admit I did not dare try the mogul fields.) Because of lack of powder I stuck to ~blue-square runs. It's true this is not the ideal snow conditions for FT62s / NNN-BC / leathers.

But, I am in the crowd who wants to learn to get down as best they can on leather boots and light gear, so I enjoyed it nonetheless. I suspect I am improving my light gear telemark technique much faster in trial-by-fire crud on hard groomers than I would have in ideal conditions for these skis. I loved the feeling of the generous sidecut of these skis initiating the tele turn; from how they felt on hardpack I can surmise de-weighted jump-tele turns in few inches of light powder would be bliss. (I was disappointed I didn't get a few inches of soft powder to try the FT62s in ideal light tele conditions, however.)

I didn't feel like the binding (NNN-BC) or the leather boots were limiter in these conditions, it was definitely the soft flex chattering FT62 skis on ice/hardpack. I can't say what Xplore would get me (if anything) over this setup - perhaps (??) more stability on my trailing / heel lifted ski? All this to say: for those of you interested in leather NNN-BC light telemark, as technique challenge rather than finding best way down, do not be scared by folks who say that these setups are unusable on hardpack. Yes, they are out of comfort zone, but it can be done downhill, elegantly with practice (I'm not quite there yet), and that is why we are into this type of skiing in the first place. Also, one can and should be comfortable going to parallel turns in really hairy steep ice.

For me, the combo of hefting my light skis in one hand, climbing/skinning up effortlessly, having my feet in warm comfortable leather boots all day, finding challenge (enjoyment) on moderate pitch runs, and, last but not least, handicapping myself appropriately for skiing with group of casual alpine skiers, is worth it. And then occasionally in the future I will be rewarded with perfect light powder conditions.

p.s. I was not accosted by anyone for leash-less skiing, but I had them in my jacket pocket just in case.

p.p.s. I can squeeze the (new, black) FT62s together easily with two fingers in the wax pocket. With my entire track Nordic quiver this is impossible. I am therefore skeptical of any true kick and glide performance on compact snow with these skis; I have only skinned and not kick waxed for my use cases. I can't comment if the tips and tails are stiffer for downhill performance than the older FT62s as I haven't skied them.

I have the FT Xplore in 196, I can assure you they kick and glide in both hardpack and soft snow. They may not kick and glide like my Gamme, but they do kick and glide surprisingly well.

fisheater wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:50 pm

I have the FT Xplore in 196, I can assure you they kick and glide in both hardpack and soft snow. They may not kick and glide like my Gamme, but they do kick and glide surprisingly well.

I’m sure you’re right as I’ve not tried it and you have. I’m not used to this kind of Nordic ski so maybe I shouldn’t think it needs to pass the kick zone paper test with weight on both skis to kick and glide well…

@timpete as an interesting side note, if you squeeze the FT X together base to base at the binding, you will see air on either side of where the skis are squeezed together. I don’t know what it means, but I have zero wax drag on consolidated bases. As a matter of fact, on consolidated bases with fresh dust I think rocker is more detrimental to glide than camber.

fisheater wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:34 pm

@timpete as an interesting side note, if you squeeze the FT X together base to base at the binding, you will see air on either side of where the skis are squeezed together. I don’t know what it means, but I have zero wax drag on consolidated bases. As a matter of fact, on consolidated bases with fresh dust I think rocker is more detrimental to glide than camber.

I wonder if that means the bases are railed - I.e. edge high. This was a common problem with the old Karhu Guides.