NNN BC Magnum reliability in the backcountry

[MikeK]

lilcliffy - maybe bgregoire has some more comment on this as he has experience with both, and maybe I should keep my mouth shut because I'm selling two pairs of 75mm Alaska boots, but I too get the feeling these boots were designed for the NNN BC and then slapped together with a Vibram 75mm sole to appease some skiers.

I really like the Alaska 75mm as it was my first good XCD boot (I had others which sucked) so I hope they fixed the issue with the sole but honest truth: I like NNN version better. I can't really explain why, it just feels like it works better and that it's more connected to the ski.

[bgregoire]

Hey Guyz, I think you should call me Ben instead of bgregoire, its a horrible username but I'm stuck with it now.

I don't have much to say more than what both of you have concerning the unreliability of the newer 3 pin boots except perhaps that I have noticed that the older style norwegian welt 75 mm boot have (and is still being made by Alico and Andrew at the very least) a harder plastic "mid sole" between the vibram sole and the boot itself.That layer is generally much harder that the "rubber" of the newer generation boots. I bet that that plastic middle layers helps prevent the entire sole but particuliarly the pin zone from tearing and the norwegian welt itself is bomber protection against ripping between the sole and the boot itself. So I argue, the norwegian welted boots are superior in terms of reliability. Then again, I have some very old Arkos double boots (which was eventually bought by Andrew but is in fact the very same boot) that I got for a few dollars. They must be over 20 years old. They had only been used in Riva type bindings so the pins were new. Now, I took em out this winter for a week long trip and that very hard plastic midsole cracked in several places near the pins. So these boots might be very reliable, plastic ages with time and becomes brittle, but they still eventually end up dying like everything else.

[MikeK]

I'm sure Johnny can change it for you Ben - I know you are Ben, but I didn't want other to get lost.

While we are drifting here, I wonder if NNN boots will be more reliable overall due to less bending and twisting loads on the sole?

It's kind of disappointing hear about the metal fatigue failure in the binding mechanism - I wrote up a whole thesis on ideas I had about this but I decided it was just too nerdy to post... but I'll cut to the chase of what I was after. Does anyone know what the material is (it's steel of some sort I'm sure) and if it's hard?

[jooleyen]

In recent years I have noticed a disturbing trend however- a growing number of 75mmNN-3 pin boot failures. I have seen an increasing number of 75mm-3 pin boot failures- both amongst skiers I personally know- and the internet is full of reports.

I totally believe this and it's exactly why I went with some old school, burly Alicos. I'm not saying they can't fail, but I'd trust them above pretty much any other 3-pin boot.

[bgregoire]

It's kind of disappointing hear about the metal fatigue failure in the binding mechanism - I wrote up a whole thesis on ideas I had about this but I decided it was just too nerdy to post... but I'll cut to the chase of what I was after. Does anyone know what the material is (it's steel of some sort I'm sure) and if it's hard?

If you have a binding hanging around, You can open up the plastic casing from underneath by flipping a few clips with a knife. You will then have access to the metal mechanism. The piece that broke on mine is the "clip" that holds onto the boot pin. A clean break right under the boot pin itself. It's hard. That all I know.

[MikeK]

Clean break doesn't sound like a fatigue failure - but sometimes it's tough to tell if there might have been a very slight material defect, tooling mark, or small fatigue crack that initiated the failure. Really needs to be analyzed under a microscope.

Did you determine they were hard based on scratching with a knife or file?

I looked at mine after work today before I went skiing - I was trying to tell if they were stainless or coated steel - looks to be coated possibly. Do you know if they are magnetic? I'd go check but honestly I don't have a magnet handy.

[bgregoire]

Clean break doesn't sound like a fatigue failure - but sometimes it's tough to tell if there might have been a very slight material defect, tooling mark, or small fatigue crack that initiated the failure. Really needs to be analyzed under a microscope.

Did you determine they were hard based on scratching with a knife or file?

I looked at mine after work today before I went skiing - I was trying to tell if they were stainless or coated steel - looks to be coated possibly. Do you know if they are magnetic? I'd go check but honestly I don't have a magnet handy.

Sorry but your clearly more interested in those details than me! I'll let the investigative reporter in you work it out and come to us with an answer!

[MikeK]

Honestly I'd like to start my own buisiness and re-engineer all this stuff so it actually works in the harshest BC conditions. But there's probably no money to be made in that

[bgregoire]

Honestly I'd like to start my own buisiness and re-engineer all this stuff so it actually works in the harshest BC conditions. But there's probably no money to be made in that

Sadly no, but enroll me on the Pro team, i'll be more than happy to try em out and share my comments!

[1EyedJack]

good stuff here, especially expedition-worthy equipment.

just one point of clarification regarding screwdrivers: Pozidrive is what you want, not Phillips. Phillips will f-up your binding screws.

Interesting, I never knew of the Pozidrive. Regardless though, I think that neither of the bits on your pic are optimal for the generic ski screws. I've always used the Phillips #3, its "fatter" than those on your pic and inserts perfectly into the screws. I've never had one slip either.

not to belabor my point, but....


here is a picture from Tongar's catalogue of a Pozi #3 driver. 99.9% of all binding screws for skis and snowboards are pozi, not phillips. the right tool for the job, eh?