Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

I’m sorry @GrimSurfer you are an interesting guy, but you do not understand the dynamics of downhill skiing. Pressuring the front or back of the ski by LEVERaging the front of the ski or the back of the ski are skills employed by dynamic downhill skiers. I am much better at leveraging the front of the ski. Leveraging the tail of the ski is a skill employed by all good slalom skiers.
I really don’t care if Mr Surfer understands. I just want anyone else to know that a cable can allow you to apply leverage to the front of the ski. A stiff cuff can allow a skilled skier to pressure the tail of the ski and make really fast turns. I have only experienced that sensation by accident.
I don’t believe in relativism, fact is fact. So sometimes when I know something to be false, I get a bit passionate. I disagree with a statement or theory, I am not disparaging a knowledgeable and interesting person.

Any guesses why NNN BC bindings don’t use cables? If the cables transferred force, surely they’d be useful…

But cables don’t transfer force. They control heel movement.

So why don’t NNN BC bindings use cables? Look at the bottom of the boot and top of the binding…
Because heel control is achieved by the bottom of the binding AND the boot all the way to the mid foot. This is sufficient to keep the heel aligned. Could the heel still twist somewhat? Sure, but the moment of torque acting on the heel runs from the arch to the heel (in an NN binding, the moment of torque runs from the toes to the heel because there is nothing restraining movement (unless one uses a cable to control heel movement)).

THAT’s why NN bindings can benefit from cables. There’s really nothing else in the binding designed to control heel movement.

This could open up a fascinating discussion on why we don’t yet see cables on Xplore. Someday we might. At the moment, I suspect that the torsional stiffness of soles (which are ALL made by Rottefella and supplied to boot manufacturers) has something to do with it.

Time will tell though. And the discussion may not be framed by physics. If money can be made selling cable systems for Xplore, somebody will do it. The challenge will be getting away with it in a way that the binding system can tolerate.

Cables are all about heel control. Some binding systems benefit from cables. Others (apparently) don’t need them…

So I take it that I should just hold on to my 3pin and cables for the time being...

I think anybody that has ever used a cable binding could feel the tip pressure they create. It's basic physics. That being said, skiing is more art than science anyway.

The stiff flexor on the explore should also increase tip pressure.

AdamA wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:42 pm

So I take it that I should just hold on to my 3pin and cables for the time being...

Adam, what is it you want to get out of the Explore system? Better dh control, touring efficiency or maybe weight savings?

lowangle al wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:56 pm

I think anybody that has ever used a cable binding could feel the tip pressure they create. It's basic physics. That being said, skiing is more art than science anyway.

The stiff flexor on the explore should also increase tip pressure.

It just *facilitates* skier weight transfer. It doesn’t *create* it.

Pressure is a product of weight transfer.

The manner in which skis are used may be subject to artistic interpretation. The principles on which skis operate is a matter of physics. This is an important distinction.

It just *facilitates* skier weight transfer. It doesn’t *create* it.

Obviously the skier transfers their weight not the binding, but the binding is a SIMPLE tool that increases the forces generated. Who really gives a rip about this incessant quibbling? I'm sure you'll answer

The front of the cable is not at the boots / bindings pivot point. Meaning the springs in the cable extend when raising the heel. Raising the heel by x amount with the cable attached is harder than without the cable. The cable increases the force required to lift the heel from the binding. So it increases also the force pushing the tip of the ski down when raising the heel.

Anyways I'm curious to see what the answer to the original question is.

wabene wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:34 am

It just *facilitates* skier weight transfer. It doesn’t *create* it.

Obviously the skier transfers their weight not the binding, but the binding is a SIMPLE tool that increases the forces generated. Who really gives a rip about this incessant quibbling? I'm sure you'll answer

Dude's been here less than a month. He sure feels entitled to spew his opinions on every thread. Well you know what they say about opinions...

Whats this fuss about the springs not transferring force?

Obviously the springs tension as you raise your heel, transmitting a forward force to the ski generated by raising your heel. It’s the whole point of active tele bindings…

____

They being said, I’m more interested in the actual subject. I myself need to decide between xplore versus Rottefella 75mm w/ cables for my rabb and Breidablikk husky.

Is the xplore investment worth it?

My only current issue with 75mm is the typical more flat shoe soles and very slightly more restrictive k&g (compared to nnn-bc and likely xplore)