wax vs scales vs XSkin vs klister

[Woodserson]

Interesting day today.

Snow as wet yesterday, frozen overnight, and warmed today but did not thaw-- ambient temps around 40f, but the snow on the lake stayed firm and glazed on the surface. It was hard enough I could pole over the snow on my waxless crown E99's and not leave tracks, but could not K&G against the wind unless I was in a snowmobile track. It was just soft enough that the head of the attachment of the XSkin would drag in the surface-- causing slow loud skiing, kind of like scales would if they could grip, except I got better kick.

I compared the 45mm mohair to the 30mm mohair to the 30mm nylon.

The 30mm nylon and 30mm mohair: Nylon was grabby on the wet snow inbound to the lake on a paved surface that had warmed up. It was obvious which ski had which skin. The grabbiness was almost dangerous as it had not logical reasoning to when it decided to grab. However once on the lake where the snow surface did not thaw the the two skins were almost equal in measure except the nylon had more grip. This is the only instance so far I have had nylon perform as well as the mohair in terms of glide, and it's a pretty unique situation that would be hard to replicate on a consistent basis. The snow was refrozen but not corn-- a hard glazed surface that the ski made no mark on but the XSkin attachment head left a tell-tale groove.

The 45mm mohair and 30mm mohair: Little difference in glide, slightly more grip on the 45mm. This replicates the results from the previous test, even on this weird glazed ice surface. It was so insignificant in terms of drag that I left this set-up on my skis for the rest of the ski and just enjoyed myself as there was no reason to stop and reskin.

I am definitely thinking that if I'm doing a long tour the 45mm Mohair XSkin on the Gamme 54 is the way to go, with a 30mm Mohair for a back-up/dry pair or for very flat days. The Nylon is best saved for strict up-down days with long ups and long downs where one would want to pull the skins.

[lowangle al]

Good information Woods, why can't you just eliminate the nylon skin? Do they climb that much better?

[Cannatonic]

interesting, I used a shortened 35mm nylon skin on the Gamme on frozen granula/ice around 31 degrees and it worked well - could barely notice any "catching" feeling on the glide. That was the day I shortened the skin though - there was really annoying drag on the tails until I shortened it to the heel plate

[lilcliffy]

I owe you an apology Woods!
We had very warm and very wet snow conditions all week last week.
The mohair kicker skins were not enough grip on my Gamme 54.
My abundance of cold snow has narrowed my perspective too much!!

Seems clear that one does want both a nylon and a mohair kicker skin!!!

[Woodserson]

I don't think there was anything to apologize for?

I find this interesting, can you describe a bit more? Was it on the flats or in climbs? 30 or 45mm mohair? Since the shoulder I have been farming the frozen lakes and have not seen hills in quite a bit of time, so it would be a worthwhile reference point for me.

[lilcliffy]

Warm, wet, and very soft- actively melting- snow. The snow was very fast.
Hilly terrain- gentle to moderately-steep slopes.
210cm Gamme 54 BC.
Base prepped with Swix Polar- superb glide.
45mm mohair X-Skin- prepped with Black Diamond "Glop Sopper" skin wax.
OK grip on the flats- needed a very focused kick though.
Not enough grip when climbing.
Would not have climbed the steeper grades I have been climbing with grip wax alone all winter.

Even my 30mm nylon Skin-Lock was better than the 45mm mohair X-Skin.

Could simply be that the mohair skin was too wet to grip?

We have cold, hard, miserable refrozen concrete this week. Using the 35mm mohair X-Skin this week- good grip and glide.

[lowangle al]

How would the skins have compared to fishscales if they were available on that ski, in those conditions?

[Verskis]

How would the skins have compared to fishscales if they were available on that ski, in those conditions?

I am also really interested in this.
I don't have any fishscale skis, but I am thinking that the current conditions might suit them. We have still some snow on the forests, but that is very wet and warm melting snow during the days (on nights it is usually refrozen). I have skied that with the Madshus Intelligrip skins on my Åsnes Rabbs (the 58mm mohair X-skin is way too slow in my opinion, I very much prefer the Intelligrip), which results in okayish grip, and not great but tolerable glide. However, the mohair Intelligrip gets all wetted out despite conditioning that with Glop Stopper or liquid skin waxes, and I think the glide suffers when it is wet. Strangely, I have not noticed the grip getting worse when the skin is wet, which is contrary to the experiences of Lilcliffy.
What I don't like about any skins that they can be quite grabby on variable snow conditions. For example, if I'm skiing downhill with the skins on and criss-crossing a packed-down or frozen trail, the glide might be pretty good in fresh snow, but the hardpack snow or ice might grab the skin and really throw me off balance.

Now, I have been thinking that should I just continue to ski with the skins, or splurge on some fishscale skis (like S Bound 98's or something like that), or put the skis away until next winter and just ride my mountain bike on the trails when they are frozen (that is great fun too!) ?
Would the fishscales enhance the skiing experience on the spring corn and slush?

[lilcliffy]

How would the skins have compared to fishscales if they were available on that ski, in those conditions?

Should have mentioned this.
Yes- scales as good grip as the mohair skin on that warm, wet and fast snow.
On spring corn snow my experience is that scales offer better glide than the mohair kicker skin.
The degree of glide of scales vs. skin not only depends on snow conditions but also the ski...

For example-
On corn snow, my kicker-skinned E99/Gamme 54 offer as good XC glide as scales because of the release of the double-camber underfoot.
On corn snow, my E109 Crown has better glide than my kicker-skinned IngstadBC/Combat Nato because of less camber underfoot.

Nylon skin better grip than scales- but worse glide...

I was purely speculating about my mohair skin losing grip due to being wet...Not sure why. And I have plenty of experience where the mohair skin has offered excellent grip and glide on spring snow.

What I do know is that if I was going on a multi-day tour with a waxable ski and expecting variable snow conditions, I would take both mohair and nylon kicker skins.

And on the subject of scales- the addition of kicker-skin inserts on a scales ski is a big advantage to me as well. My E109 Crown is limited by this- though I do use a universal kicker skin with it.

The option of switching the mohair for nylon is a huge asset of Asnes' kicker skin system.

[lilcliffy]

I have skied that with the Madshus Intelligrip skins on my Åsnes Rabbs (the 58mm mohair X-skin is way too slow in my opinion, I very much prefer the Intelligrip), which results in okayish grip, and not great but tolerable glide.

What is the width of the Intelligrip skin again?

However, the mohair Intelligrip gets all wetted out despite conditioning that with Glop Stopper or liquid skin waxes, and I think the glide suffers when it is wet. Strangely, I have not noticed the grip getting worse when the skin is wet, which is contrary to the experiences of Lilcliffy.

I was just speculating about the lack of grip when it is wet...I was just surprised by the lack of grip last week with my Gamme 54 + mohair skin...Likely a complex of both snow conditions, the ski camber-flex and the type of skin...I have not experienced this with my E99 + Easy-Skin (come to think of it I should have tested it last week as well), but the Easy-Skin is a mohair-nylon mix. All I know is that the grip was better with the nylon skin on the Gamme last week.

What I don't like about any skins that they can be quite grabby on variable snow conditions. For example, if I'm skiing downhill with the skins on and criss-crossing a packed-down or frozen trail, the glide might be pretty good in fresh snow, but the hardpack snow or ice might grab the skin and really throw me off balance.

Yeah- agree- this is terrible. I take them off for any serious downhills on variable snow- or even warm spring snow in general. Scales are better in general in this context, despite the fact that they can be super slippery on hard, icy refrozen snow- resolved with scales + skin.

Now, I have been thinking that should I just continue to ski with the skins, or splurge on some fishscale skis (like S Bound 98's or something like that), or put the skis away until next winter and just ride my mountain bike on the trails when they are frozen (that is great fun too!) ?
Would the fishscales enhance the skiing experience on the spring corn and slush?

Yes- I know that scales would enhance your skiing on spring corn and slush.
78, 88 or 98?
Or- Ingstad/Nansen waxless?