The NNN/BC Truth Thread

[lilcliffy]

You are right, and you are right!

I'm not sure about the BOF issue...when I put the cable on I get so much more binding resistance that I definitely have more BOF control and power.

The real issue is just as you said- the versitality of 75mm-3-pin!!!

I think my real problem is that my stubborn practical self can't stand that i am now keeping two different binding systems going!

Sometimes I almost wish I had just forked over the extra cash and bought the stronger 3-pin boots...if I hadn't had premature sole failure with a couple of boots- I probably never would have got started with NNNBC. Now I am hooked on it as a BC-XC binding.

YES- the very wide range of 3-pin boot power available makes the binding platform so much more practical and versatile.

Now I can't decide what binding to put on a ski like the Ingstad! I am annoying...but I don't see my self ever using a boot like my T4s on the Ingstad...

I am going to take this down. I shouldn't post at night when I am overtired! I write- a lot- before I go to bed...I should probably never post it until I have had a chance to think about it in the morning!

You are right there is another place for it...or maybe no significance to it at all!

[lilcliffy]

Ahhh...!!!
Thanks to everyone for showing me the NNNBC truth!

That was not a scientific test, as I don't have the proper tools to measure force and pressure. But I put the exact same boots on the skis, one Alaska 75mm and one Alaska NNN BC.

IMG_04846.jpg

Playing around with the boots on the skis, the results were very clear:

Pins versus NNNBC:

1- Vertical resistance: Much better on NNN BC
2- Lateral torsion: MUCH better on NNN BC
3- Leverage/edge control: MUCH better on NNN BC!

Sorry Ron...

LJ- do you think that this has more to do with the strength and rigidness of the boot- than the binding plate?

I don't like the 75mm Alaska because the flex is so soft- it doesn't produce as much binding resistance as the NNNBC. Less binding resistance= less K&G performance + less edging power.

Do you think your observations above are because of the binding or the boot?

[teledance]

Wow arguing with a banned Tele skier, must not have snow.

My only experience with NNN we got out at the trailhead and my buddies NNN system broke so back to town for parts and then back to the TH for our ski to a yurt. Never had a problem with the Voile 3pc. and snowpines.

[MikeK]

Wow arguing with a banned Tele skier, must not have snow.

My only experience with NNN we got out at the trailhead and my buddies NNN system broke so back to town for parts and then back to the TH for our ski to a yurt. Never had a problem with the Voile 3pc. and snowpines.

Bwahaha! Who is this banned Tele skier we are arguing with? Ron? The same guy who argues with everyone else from a forum no one posts on because he's been banned for being a dickwad? Yeah... we're the crazy ones

One experience with a broken binding is nothing but an anecdote, but it can't be worse than NTN? Can it?

Anyway this thread still has relevance, and why it was decided to bring it back from the bowels of hell despite some of the batshit crazy claims made earlier in it.

[MikeK]

Cliffy - I merged your other thread and posts regarding binding power here...

Now we can start the real debate

I'll respond to your last post later on, I may need to make a diagram or something - this question has been floating around for too long with far too much confusion.

You are correct if you have a cuff, and you look at the ski/boot/binding system, the edging force comes from there. But if you do not have a cuff, you can still edge a ski. The force must come from somewhere! So we'll look at that.

For now, try to convince yourself why Rottefella made two different binding plates. They have engineers and they know a little bit about skis, so there must be a reason

Also as a VERY extreme case, think of an ice skate. It is always on edge, but you roll it when you turn it. Skates are generally high top, but most aren't exactly stiff. Less stiff than an xc boot in a lot of cases. So the force comes from the BOF, in a downward direction, which is offset from the blade of the skate (analogous to the edge of the ski) to create a torque which rolls the skate to an angle other than vertical. Think about how much offset there is in a skate from the big toe or little toe to the blade - this creates huge torque when you want to roll the skate. Binding plates have the same function on a ski except our blade got way wider and our offset is less. Then this is where we need the extra force from the bail or the bar, pushing UP to roll the ski. So in essence, if we have a low top boot with no cuff, we'd roll the heel to twist the boot torsionally. That load would translate to a downward force plate to the edge that is trying to be set and the upward force on the binding helping lift the opposing edge.

[bgregoire]

Decided to take this down.

Hej Cliff, you should bring that idea back! It is definitely an interesting and passionate subject. Even though you might not be 100%, its a great plac eto start as a hypothesis! Bring it on!

[connyro]

Wow arguing with a banned Tele skier, must not have snow.

My only experience with NNN we got out at the trailhead and my buddies NNN system broke so back to town for parts and then back to the TH for our ski to a yurt. Never had a problem with the Voile 3pc. and snowpines.

Funny. I've broken Voile 3-pins and fatally tore a pair of Snowpines but never had a problem with NNN.

[bgregoire]

I broke NNN BC bindings and saw glued 75mm boots tear up. Everything and anything will break EVENTUALLY. I mean, its plsatic, rubber, a little metal, threads and glue afterall. Its how much fun we we have until and how long it takes to get to that point that really matters.

[MikeK]

I broke NNN BC bindings and saw glued 75mm boots tear up. Everything and anything will break EVENTUALLY. I mean, its plsatic, rubber, a little metal, threads and glue afterall. Its how much fun we we have until and how long it takes to get to that point that really matters.

It's how far you are from home that matters!

Broken binding at the trailhead = PITA

Broken binding at the North Pole = Tell my family I loved them!

[connyro]

I broke NNN BC bindings and saw glued 75mm boots tear up. Everything and anything will break EVENTUALLY. I mean, its plsatic, rubber, a little metal, threads and glue afterall. Its how much fun we we have until and how long it takes to get to that point that really matters.

That's exactly my point. Just saying "one time I saw something break" is just plain silly and offers little evidence that something is inferior or not.