Considering the Gamme

[grizz_bait]

Just got my skis in the mail from Neptune. Corked a couple layers of polar wax into the base and headed out to ski. It was 34* and snowing, so I opted for the 45 mm mohair X-Skins. Good kick and glide, definitely a touch faster and more fun than my Traverse 78s. Taking them out tomorrow with a selection of waxes, can’t wait! Headed to a colder and higher altitude zone, skiing should be good

[Woodserson]

I got my Gammes yesterday, too. To my surprise, the Gammes (200 cm) are stiffer underfoot than the Ragos (205 cm). Also nordic rocker seems very similar on the Ragos and Gammes, when I press the center parts together.

For both skis, I did paper tests in "Baywatch mode" based on lilcliffy's recommendations (first citation below). I am 82 kg / 180 cm. With the Gammes, a paper moves under binding area (and maybe up to x-sking attachment holes on one ski). With the Ragos, a paper moves only very little under one ski. The 200 cm Gamme stiffness sounds optimal, I guess.

Surprisingly, the 200 cm Gammes seem rather too stiff than too soft with my 82 kg. Lilcliffy, how much stiffer are your 210 cm Gammes actually?

FYI Below are some quotations from lilcliffy for context.

When I stood on the 175s they compressed all the way. When I stood on the 180s they did not. For climbing/hilly routes it sounds like the 175 is the better choice.

This is the information you need.
If the camber underfoot of the 180cm is not compressed- when evenly weighted- you are going to have trouble- both uphill and downhill- on steep hills.

Sounds like you got the PERFECT ski!!!!!
Gareth

For example- I weigh 80-81kg without a pack and I completely squash the camber of even my stiffest 210cm Gamme 54 BC/E99 Xtralite.

To clarify- Fisheater can squash the 210cm Gamme 54 with both feet equally weighted- as can I at ~180+lbs (i.e. depending on pack wieght).

gammet.jpg

Could be your floor. Try a different spot and different axis.
ALL your weight on one ski at the binding.
Do the Ragos have old wax?

I’m 73kg with no gear and 200cm works well for me once I put on my pack. Card moves underfoot but not much forward of the binding, maybe a card length. I use an index card, little thicker.

[Woodserson]

Just got my skis in the mail from Neptune. Corked a couple layers of polar wax into the base and headed out to ski. It was 34* and snowing, so I opted for the 45 mm mohair X-Skins. Good kick and glide, definitely a touch faster and more fun than my Traverse 78s. Taking them out tomorrow with a selection of waxes, can’t wait! Headed to a colder and higher altitude zone, skiing should be good

Hell yeah! Welcome to the club

[tkarhu]

I got my Gammes yesterday, too. To my surprise, the Gammes (200 cm) are stiffer underfoot than the Ragos (205 cm). Also nordic rocker seems very similar on the Ragos and Gammes, when I press the center parts together.

Could be your floor. Try a different spot and different axis.
ALL your weight on one ski at the binding.
Do the Ragos have old wax?

@Woodserson Thanks for the info!

I paper tested both Gamme and Rago on same plank (200 cm parquet plank, newish concrete house). I do not know if my spouse is willing to test floor planks besides ski planks She already has this "not again" face, when I say paper test.

The Ragos did have some red klister, when I got them. Paper test worked a lot better after removing it!

I’m 73kg with no gear and 200cm works well for me once I put on my pack. Card moves underfoot but not much forward of the binding, maybe a card length. I use an index card, little thicker.

There could also be difference between pairs of skis because we have same skis, different weight and a similar paper test result. Would be great to hear Lilcliffy’s points, too.

To clarify, I do trust the Gammes will fit. My favorite XC skis have longer and stiffer cambers than the Gammes. On the other hand, I do believe, when people say BC skis must be softer. 210 cm would probably be good for me too, especially on hard and flat grounds (or all ski polar wax). I just happened to find this pair of Gammes second hand. The extra 10 of 210 cm would have costed me 200+ dollars, plus Fabio prints…

[grizz_bait]

Just got back from skiing the Gamme sans skins. 27 degrees F at the car, corked in a few layers of blue extra in the spirit of trying to get away with the hardest wax possible. Grip was good but occasionally slippery in the first couple miles of snowshoe-compacted trail, but not enough to extend the kick wax zone or try a softer wax. After a couple miles, the snowshoer highway transitioned to an old faint ski track with an inch of cold snow on top. Here, the skis really started to fly! Just amazing, truly revelatory. My friends make fun of me when I say a good kick and glide is just as fun as skiing powder, now I stand by that statement even more! I really enjoy how quiet the skis are. I spooked a couple moose, I’m glad it’s still a month or so until the grizzlies start coming out of their winter dens.

Thanks so much to everyone who has responded to my questions. If you ever find yourself in the Yellowstone area, I’d be happy to show you around to extend my gratitude. In my estimation, Yellowstone is a world class Nordic touring zone, and I’m lucky to live an hour away.

[grizz_bait]

Skied the Gamme again today, this time on a significantly longer tour. 18 degrees at the car, blue extra it is. This outing requires about a mile of steeper climbing at the halfway point, so I scraped the kick wax off and put skins on. What a pain in cold weather! It was hard to scrape and left big globs in the kick zone. It didn’t take long for me to abandon the scrape job and slap the skins on. I think just leaving the base alone next time is the way to go, because only the globs of wax stuck to the skin. Not terrible, still plenty of stick on the skin. I remember reading here that blue wax is the softest recommended wax to put skins over, but perhaps blue extra is hard enough also. I considered adding a soft wax like red special instead of putting skins on, but didn’t wanna fuss with scraping it off before the long mellow downhill descent on the other side of the pass. Interestingly, I left the globby blue extra in the kick zone and still had great kick and glide on the descent and flats below the pass. Not sure why I was so intimidated by waxing, so far it’s been fairly idiot proof.

[CwmRaider]

Skied the Gamme again today, this time on a significantly longer tour. 18 degrees at the car, blue extra it is. This outing requires about a mile of steeper climbing at the halfway point, so I scraped the kick wax off and put skins on. What a pain in cold weather! It was hard to scrape and left big globs in the kick zone. It didn’t take long for me to abandon the scrape job and slap the skins on. I think just leaving the base alone next time is the way to go, because only the globs of wax stuck to the skin. Not terrible, still plenty of stick on the skin. I remember reading here that blue wax is the softest recommended wax to put skins over, but perhaps blue extra is hard enough also. I considered adding a soft wax like red special instead of putting skins on, but didn’t wanna fuss with scraping it off before the long mellow downhill descent on the other side of the pass. Interestingly, I left the globby blue extra in the kick zone and still had great kick and glide on the descent and flats below the pass. Not sure why I was so intimidated by waxing, so far it’s been fairly idiot proof.

Several things here:
- If you need extra grip it is also fine to extend your kick zone forward a bit. You can wax all the way to the tip as required, glide will be compromised of course
- Blue extra will work fine with skins unless it's globby, or if it doesn't stick to the ski for whatever reason (I had grip wax over glide wax once, bad idea).
- if you do get wax on your skin glue, the skins can be refreshed by sticking them to strips of brown paper (paper bag type thicker paper) and ironing them on the lowest functioning heat from the paper side. The wax will melt and absorb into the paper, the skin glue will stay on the skins.

I tend to avoid softer than blue extra wax altogether on my fjellski, but I'm warming up to the idea slowly as I get more experience waxing my track skis.

[tkarhu]

I got my Gammes yesterday, too. To my surprise, the Gammes (200 cm) are stiffer underfoot than the Ragos (205 cm). Also nordic rocker seems very similar on the Ragos and Gammes, when I press the center parts together.

Could be your floor. Try a different spot and different axis.
ALL your weight on one ski at the binding.
Do the Ragos have old wax?

Forgot to mention, also hand press test said Gamme is stiffer. Trying to press Ragos flat by hand at binding point, the skis go together easily. By contrast, Gammes do not go flat like that (at least in a position where I could check the gap myself).

Also Rago felt also softer than Madshus M55 in another hand press test. viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4503&p=47980&hilit ... b1a#p47980

[Woodserson]

I got my Gammes yesterday, too. To my surprise, the Gammes (200 cm) are stiffer underfoot than the Ragos (205 cm). Also nordic rocker seems very similar on the Ragos and Gammes, when I press the center parts together.

Could be your floor. Try a different spot and different axis.
ALL your weight on one ski at the binding.
Do the Ragos have old wax?

Forgot to mention, also hand press test said Gamme is stiffer. Trying to press Ragos flat by hand at binding point, the skis go together easily. By contrast, Gammes do not go flat like that (at least in a position where I could check the gap myself).

Also Rago felt also softer than Madshus M55 in another hand press test. viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4503&p=47980&hilit ... b1a#p47980

They are different skis. Why are you comparing these two skis in particular? The Ragos you have are around 20 years old. The Gamme is a high powered stiff ski meant for strong experienced skiers to go fast. You are well within the Asnes recommended weight range. I'm not sure about your experience level. Do you know how to grip-wax? If your are experienced skier and you know how to wax you are going to be good. I think you're thinking about this too much and you should just go skiing on your new Gammes and have fun! Grip wax the bottoms from heel to 15cm ahead of the skin-insertion point and see what that gives you. I bet it's too much.

Your floor test is still flawed, no matter how new your floor is. We're talking a paper-thin margin, literally, of accuracy needing to test this accurately. Don't get all wrapped up around details here. And you have the Green Man ski, which is actually a little more "relaxed" than the new Teal Man version.

GO SKIING

[wabene]

Could be your floor. Try a different spot and different axis.
ALL your weight on one ski at the binding.
Do the Ragos have old wax?

Forgot to mention, also hand press test said Gamme is stiffer. Trying to press Ragos flat by hand at binding point, the skis go together easily. By contrast, Gammes do not go flat like that (at least in a position where I could check the gap myself).

Also Rago felt also softer than Madshus M55 in another hand press test. viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4503&p=47980&hilit ... b1a#p47980

They are different skis. Why are you comparing these two skis in particular? The Ragos you have are around 20 years old. The Gamme is a high powered stiff ski meant for strong experienced skiers to go fast. You are well within the Asnes recommended weight range. I'm not sure about your experience level. Do you know how to grip-wax? If your are experienced skier and you know how to wax you are going to be good. I think you're thinking about this too much and you should just go skiing on your new Gammes and have fun! Grip wax the bottoms from heel to 15cm ahead of the skin-insertion point and see what that gives you. I bet it's too much.

Your floor test is still flawed, no matter how new your floor is. We're talking a paper-thin margin, literally, of accuracy needing to test this accurately. Don't get all wrapped up around details here. And you have the Green Man ski, which is actually a little more "relaxed" than the new Teal Man version.

GO SKIING

I would take a 200cm Green Man in a nano second, 205, 210, whatevs hand em ova!