All purpose backcountry/bushwack ski

[lilcliffy]

ddg- I have done many long-distance tours (~20km/day) in my T4s. Although I kinda hate touring in plastic boots in general; the T4 has offered me the ability to mountain tour, and downhill ski in some pretty extreme terrain, snow, and tight cover conditions.

Neither the T4 or the Excursion are big-mountain telemark boots- they are designed to be heavy-duty Nordic touring boots. It seems clear that the Excursion design is a bit more weighted towards touring; the T4 a bit more towards downhill.

Personally, the primary reason I would ever use a plastic Nordic touring boot is for downhill performance. I have never used plastic Nordic touring boots for their touring performance.

I was able to try both boots on when I bought my T4s. For me- either one one would have fit me adequately. I chose the T4 for its performance- not its fit.

[MikeK]

Both have a ton of turning power compared to anything leather. Both will be more than adequate for what ddg is skiing with IMO. The Excursion is certainly better for kick and glide, but neither are great.

Knowing my feet personally, I'd not even bother with the T4. I might be able to tolerate the Excursion though.

If you want to know about messing with a pair of boots that will never work for your feet and wasting money, I have my last pair of Alpine boots in the basement to show for that. Tons of time wasted trying to ski them, and have them adjusted and they were never right. Boot fitters said the shell is too big for my foot yet kept stretching them out. It might be a tad too long for my foot, but never even close to the right shape. Plastic is so unforgiving but in theory you can mold it, grind it, change inserts, etc... I would never go that route again. If a boot didn't feel right out of the box I'd return and try something else.

[ddg]

I was able to try both boots on when I bought my T4s

Do you recall the size difference in your case? Sorry if you already answered this...

If a boot didn't feel right out of the box I'd return and try something else.

Absolutely. I have no interest in getting anything stretched or new liners. For now I just want a boot that is stiff enough for this ski and that fits.

It's really too bad the T4s don't fit (and I've tried them on several times over the last couple days just to be sure ). Otherwise I would have been out on those babies today I was able to the bindings mounted. Took my time, measured and remeasured before drilling. Everything looks good.

BTW, anyone ever get anything from Poubelleduski in Montreal?

[LooseHeel]

Have you taken the liners out of the T4's and done a shell fit? If you still have them, try it. Slide the foot forward until the toes just barely touch the shell, then measure how much room is behind the heel. 1-2cm is good... 1cm will be a snug performance fit, 2cm will be more comfortable. A good fit will also depend on foot volume.

The liners will pack out with use, almost too tight fit now might be just right after a few outings. Too comfortable now, can possibly mean too big later.

Another foot measurement... with a ruler on the floor against a wall, and heel against the wall, what is your foot length in cm?

You probably already know about the cuff "lock" lever behind the heel. Make sure that it's flipped up, into the free position, that'll help prevent the toes hitting the front while walking/striding.

[ddg]

Slide the foot forward until the toes just barely touch the shell, then measure how much room is behind the heel. 1-2cm is good... 1cm will be a snug performance fit, 2cm will be more comfortable. A good fit will also depend on foot volume.

The liners will pack out with use, almost too tight fit now might be just right after a few outings. Too comfortable now, can possibly mean too big later.

Another foot measurement... with a ruler on the floor against a wall, and heel against the wall, what is your foot length in cm?

Thanks for the advice LooseHeel. I have about 1 cm space at the heel. My foot measures just under 28 cm. Without the liners there's lots of room. But even walking in the liners alone without the shells they feel quite tight, both width and length and height wise. I definitely wouldn't where them as slippers in that size. Seems like I need a 28.5 in the T4, or (by my guess) a 28 in the Excursion.

[LooseHeel]

Sounds like you're on the right track finding a good fit. My foot measures 278mm, size 28 fits snug with toes touching at times, the 28.5 still holds the heel/forefoot ok, with more toe room and comfort. 28 is good for lift access dh'ing, 28.5 for touring.

[lilcliffy]

Derrick,

Can't remember the size difference between the T4 and the Excursion- tried them both on in a shop (MEC)- spent about an hour walking around in them, striding and flexing them. Found that they both would fit me adequately. Chose the T4 because of the performance advantages.

The advice that Looseheel is giving you is excellent (textbook).

You ordered the T4 from MEC? You could hold them until MEC gets the next size up- order them- to compare.

Can't remember...does MEC still sell the Excursion? If they do, you could take the T4s with you to Halifax in the early fall- try both boots on and test them around the shop. MEC will take them back- and they will also honor the price you paid...they might even match the price on the Excursions.

My advice is to not give up on the T4 yet...unless you feel that the foot last of the Excursion is better suited to your feet? You should start a new post asking for user-feedback on the difference in fit between the two boots. If you have very wide and/or high-volume feet- perhaps one is better for you than the other...didn't seem to make a difference for my feet.

There has been some discussion in this thread regarding the performance of the two boots...might help you to start a specific discussion about the difference in fit between the two.

As far as your question about Poubelleduski- no I have no experience or knowledge of them...cool to have another potential retailer.

You should begin a new post regarding Poubelleduski and see if we can get any user-feedback.

[bgregoire]

You should begin a new post regarding Poubelleduski and see if we can get any user-feedback.

My experience with Poubelleduski is mediocre. They take you old skis and give you a small discount when you buy new from them. They mostly sell alpine and snowboard stuff, never got really sound advice for backcountry skiing. They actually sold me my first pair of 185 Fischer E99s 10 years ago. They sold me they were a "short cut" ski meant to be skied short! Bull... Hey, if they have what you KNOW you need cheap and are willing to send it out why not though.

[ddg]

Thanks guys. Good to know about Poubelleduski. And good point about new threads - this one is getting kind of broad.

I did go for a test on the new BC125s today - using my old 3-pin boots. Wow, I see what you mean about needing a stiff boot. Twisted my boots like a braided rope. But the skis worked great, climbed well on softer snow but not so good on crust. Waxed with T4 universal solid on tip and tail and liquid on the scales. Really nice glide. Once I get the right boots these will work very well for my purposes.

[bgregoire]

Waxed with T4 universal solid on tip and tail and liquid on the scales. Really nice glide. Once I get the right boots these will work very well for my purposes.

From my understanding the wider Rossi XCDs do not have sintered bases so waxing the tips and tails is kinda futile.Enjoy what's left of the snow!!!