Telemark Skimo racing (was: 3-pin Racing)

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telemarkmark

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Re: Telemark Skimo racing (was: 3-pin Racing)

Postby telemarkmark » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:51 am

For my last outing I had elastic cords added to the heel Dynema cables. These stopped the Dynema falling off when wet, so could be set less tight. I
I found that skinning with the front throw off but elastic still on, which gave a small amount of resistance not noticed....until I removed it and was completely free.
With 3 pins v 2 pins, you may not be any less slow on a short climb, but over distance the extra effort will tire your legs. And yes, a long descent in Tele stance is a real thigh burner.
So why tele if it always slower, so I can come last with style! or first Telemo!!

iBjorn

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Re: Telemark Skimo racing (was: 3-pin Racing)

Postby iBjorn » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:33 am

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Yesterday I participated in my first race with full Rando gear, since I have mounted rando racing binding on my Atomic race skis instead of simple 3-pins. This was also a 2 hour lap race in the middle of city, this time in Sundsvall at the Swedish northeastern coast. Each lap was 147 meters in vertical (approx 500 foot). During last week I had suffered from a cold, and already during the first lap I was clear that I had not fully recovered. I felt powerless and my heart rate went up unusually fast and high, so I took it a little bit easy. Ended up with 8 laps, guess I would have managed 9 laps if I was in better shape. The gear worked just fine, it is a blessing to rest the legs and just lay back with the locked heel and pull a "11" on the downhill. According to my clock I topped about 90km/h on the downhill (55mph), although it is a little bit scary with those skinny shattery skis. On the uphill my feelings and emotions is mixed, my rando set-up is a little bit faster on flats and low angle uphill, but I think that it is more due to the lower weight and greater ROM of the Scarpa F1 boots compared to the T4s. On the steeper uphill, I cant get rid of the feeling that rando gear felt more or less on par with the 3-pin/T4 combo.
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telemarkmark

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Re: Telemark Skimo racing (was: 3-pin Racing)

Postby telemarkmark » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:32 am

Bjorn, guess you are in a different league from me! Fast laps and 80k....whoa!!
Sorry to hear you have gone to the ‘dark side’, though if you are mixing with the big boys I can understand.
As for my somewhat more sedate racing...last Scottish Skimo on Sunday. This time a pretty serious course at the Nevis Range, it looks over to Ben Nevis, magnificent views from the summit. This time we dropped into the Back Corries, an off piste route, would be a Black. Worried that it would be too serious for me and the Telemo skis, I checked it out with my ScottyBobs the day before, thick mist, so you could not see the drop, so no worries!
Telemo skis now have a spring added, so had to test them before hand, lucky I did as found the carbon plates all cracked, so no go. Did do the race on the ScottyBobs, and with 1.6kg extra per foot, did surprisingly well, for me, as I beat 5 younger competitors on lighter kit.
See more on binding on earnyourturns and Scottish Skimo on Facebook.
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telemarkmark

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Re: Telemark Skimo racing (was: 3-pin Racing)

Postby telemarkmark » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:47 pm

Further thought on my problem, the leaf probably cracked before the springs added, I was skiing some steep stuff and was going low to absorb jump turns, previously have been a bit more cautious.

iBjorn

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Re: Telemark Skimo racing (was: 3-pin Racing)

Postby iBjorn » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:56 pm

Mark, don't worry. I will not give up teleskimo, the locked heel is just temporary to get experience for the next season. Have not decided yet on the set-ups for next year, but it is possible that I go back to 3-pins and T4s on my Atomic race skis for sprint races and these short lap races in piste. For the back-country races with off-pist and long descents I will probably go for F1/teletech on a wider ski.

I ended up at place nine with my 8 laps, the winner did 14 laps - but he is also a previous world cup cross-country skier and I also think he has been a national champion. Good work by you making that position with your reserve gear, and don't give up your binding - I think you are onto something there!

telemarkmark

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Re: Telemark Skimo racing (was: 3-pin Racing)

Postby telemarkmark » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:45 pm

The final version of the Telemo carbon leaf tech toe binding? Taking note of the helpful comments I have put it back together with a few changes. It now has a 2mm aluminium plate sitting above the carbon leafs, bent to the minimum radius that (I think) the carbon is happy with.  I cut back the cracked carbon plates on the crack line and shortened then, they now only are held by the rear binding screws, perhaps not ideal. There is a hardwood spacer under the front screws.  I have also added another plate from the dwindling supply of my initial purchase.  So it is now shorter and stiffer and has the bending stress more evenly distributed. One good thing is that it now no longer catches on the underside of the boot, so the ugly plastic top sheet is omitted and the shiny carbon can be seen. It did previously show some snow packing, not too serious, and with a shorter leaf, it should be less, there is a gap between the bottom plate and the ski, so space to add a ridge to break the snow, which should also help. I will fit some anti icing sheet.

The pivot is 95mm back from the pins and 35mm below.  The pivot can move upwards about 40mm.

It has the light extension springs, 60mm long, 12mm added previously.

Weight, with screws, heel, leashes = 490g. No doubt a bit of careful engineering could shave a bit off this. The front throw does add weight, but I do like the ease of use.

Carpet testing against my HH-TT (Hammerhead Tech Toe) is was similar though softer flexing.  It had a short outing in the hills not far from Edinburgh,  less snow than I had hoped for, and what was there was neve, though not too hard,  though not natural tele territory.  From the rather too few turns I got, it is an improvement,  a good even flex with a large range, with pressure from the start. As I said before, very much like an improved 3 pin binding.   Hopefully get it out for a long tour whilst the snow lasts.   For a more gentle tour, it is a joy to climbing with a 1260g ski+binding and a 1060g boot, and is still fun coming down.  Also far more effort to skate.

In all, I am now happy that I have achieved what I set out to, a light easy to use binding for touring and the occasional Skimo race.

telemarkmark

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Re: Telemark Skimo racing (was: 3-pin Racing)

Postby telemarkmark » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:46 pm

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groughsurfer

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Re: Telemark Skimo racing (was: 3-pin Racing)

Postby groughsurfer » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:33 pm

Fascinating thread, even if I can't understand half of it. I had no idea that there was a Scottish skimo series, but sorry Mark, I've no intention of joining in, even though it would put your ratings up.
Could a race profile or format be devised that would favour XCD/ telemark over AT? Or would this just be a XC race?
Finally, for those who haven't experienced it, Scottish skiing is magic- frustrating but magic- on a good day you can see the Isle of Skye fromNevis Range. Usually, however, I prefer the mountains of the east of Scotland (Aberdeenshire for the rowie baker) for skiing - not quite so rugged but better snow cover (usually ). They've had plenty this year but it's not aLWAYS SO.

iBjorn

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Re: Telemark Skimo racing (was: 3-pin Racing)

Postby iBjorn » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:02 pm

Great work on the binding Mark!

Regarding creating races where telemark gear can be competetive with AT, the advantage tele gear has over AT gear is rolling terrain and perhaps shorter flat sections with skating. The disadvantage tele gear has is either on the downhill or on the uphill depending on the gear. The 3-pin/T4 combo I have used is more or less as fast as my AT race gear on the uphill, but I loose time, and more important energy on the downhill. Long descent on 3-pins with low boots will exhaust your legs severly, Telemarkers rest their legs when going uphill, AT racers rests their legs going downhill. Sturdy boots and active bindings will fix the tele downhill exhaustion, but then you will suffer on the uphill.

With that said, I think it is important to emphesize that the difference between light tele gear (3-pins and low boots) and AT race gear is way smaller than most people think. Unless you are world cup class skier (that can push the gear to the limits each stride) the difference is only a few percent in time/speed.

My advice is to test skimo racing, it is really fun even if you don´t end up at the podium. You will get great exercise and you will learn skills like fast transitions that will really improve your backcountry touring.

iBjorn

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Re: Telemark Skimo racing (was: 3-pin Racing)

Postby iBjorn » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:19 pm

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Arrived today at the Kebnekaise mountain station/hut for a two-day teamrace around the highest peaks in Sweden. The weather forecast is fantastic for the race days, so I am really looking forward to the race. Will probably race one day with locked heel and one day unlocked. The Teletech set-up has some advantages in this regard.
Last edited by iBjorn on Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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