Rottefella Freedom powerbox large vs. small?

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teleclub
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Rottefella Freedom powerbox large vs. small?

Post by teleclub » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:01 am

I have the small size Rottefella Freedom binding but my Garmont NTN boot is a size 26.5 which is on the borderline between the Freedom large and small sizes. The boot fits in the binding but it's fiddly and I wonder if I'll have trouble on the snow getting into the binding (not mounted on a ski yet in case I need the large instead). The Garmont NTN boot shell is labeled inside 25.5 to 26.5 so my reasoning is the shell itself should be well within the small binding size range. The size large Freedom is officially specced at 26.5-30.0 boot size. If my boot shell is the same as a 25.5 it seems it should go with the small Freedom(?).

Can I change the size of the Freedom binding by just getting the large size powerbox? or are the powerboxes the same in both sizes and the size difference is in the foot plate somewhere?

If I can change size by changing the powerbox, do I need a longer cable too? Or is the cable the same length between both sizes?

How far open can I adjust the powerbox to accommodate the boots? In other words, how loose can I adjust the cables?

thanks

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Re: Rottefella Freedom powerbox large vs. small?

Post by teleTay » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:40 pm

You need size Large NTN bindings. Not really room for "adjustment" between large and small ntn bindings.

Changing the powerbox won't help. The difference in sizes between large and small are not on the powerbox put the front half of the binding.

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Re: Rottefella Freedom powerbox large vs. small?

Post by teleclub » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:26 pm

Thanks for the reply teleTay

You're right and I've been finding out today that the NTN Freedom powerbox can be run loose enough to make entry of my 25.5-26.5 shells easy enough with the small binding even if technically they should fit. There are white or gold lines on the sections of cable you can see between the footplate and the powerbox when the clamp is open and Rottefella says you should not have two of those lines visible when open. If you see two lines then it's too loose and the cables are not screwed on far enough. The powerboxes are all the same size--the binding size difference is in the footplate (which are labeled with "large'' or "small" doh!).

I can barely fit the 25.5-26.5 boot shell in the small binding but it's fiddly and tricky to do by hand at the kitchen counter. I don't think I want to add a difficulty like that to a binding you want to be (almost) step in.

I laid my hands on a size large NTN Freedom and the boot shell fits fine.

Since I can't use the small size NTN Freedom I have, I have to decide now whether to get this size large Freedom or to get the Rainey 22 Designs Outlaw NTN.

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Re: Rottefella Freedom powerbox large vs. small?

Post by teleTay » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:43 am

teleclub wrote:Thanks for the reply teleTay

You're right and I've been finding out today that the NTN Freedom powerbox can be run loose enough to make entry of my 25.5-26.5 shells easy enough with the small binding even if technically they should fit. There are white or gold lines on the sections of cable you can see between the footplate and the powerbox when the clamp is open and Rottefella says you should not have two of those lines visible when open. If you see two lines then it's too loose and the cables are not screwed on far enough. The powerboxes are all the same size--the binding size difference is in the footplate (which are labeled with "large'' or "small" doh!).

I can barely fit the 25.5-26.5 boot shell in the small binding but it's fiddly and tricky to do by hand at the kitchen counter. I don't think I want to add a difficulty like that to a binding you want to be (almost) step in.

I laid my hands on a size large NTN Freedom and the boot shell fits fine.

Since I can't use the small size NTN Freedom I have, I have to decide now whether to get this size large Freedom or to get the Rainey 22 Designs Outlaw NTN.
The markings on boot shells can be confusing. Garmont boots are marked with NTN-L or NTN-S

There are no shell sizes that overlap between NTN large and NTN small. The distance between the toe and second heel on boots that fit in small bindings is about 3/4" shorter than on the boots that fit in large bindings.

If you are in the Wasatch stop by Freeheel Life (telemark specific) ski shop in SLC. They can get you dialed in.

I have skied both the Outlaw and Freedom. Outlaw has a better tour mode, more metal, and more powerful on the way down.

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Re: Rottefella Freedom powerbox large vs. small?

Post by Rodbelan » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:07 pm

If you are selling the small ones, I might be interested...

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Re: Rottefella Freedom powerbox large vs. small?

Post by cdn-dave » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:18 am

I’ve been riding Freedom and Freeride size large bindings with Garmont Prophet 26.0 boots for the last 6 years. I just bought Scarpa TX 26.0 boots, before realizing they use the small version of the binding.

Do I have to swap the entire binding now?

Of course, this could be an opportunity to try something different Meidjo? Bishop? What‘s the current favorite?

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Re: Rottefella Freedom powerbox large vs. small?

Post by teleclub » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:37 pm

cdn-dave wrote:I’ve been riding Freedom and Freeride size large bindings with Garmont Prophet 26.0 boots for the last 6 years. I just bought Scarpa TX 26.0 boots, before realizing they use the small version of the binding.

Do I have to swap the entire binding now?
For Freedom bindings, I think you do need to get the intended size if your TX requires the size small. Once I had both kinds of NTN boots in hand to compare, I could see what TeleTay had explained. At around that 26 boot size (depending on maker as you found), NTN boots change the distance from duckbutt to toe edge by about 20mm. It's not an incremental change for each boot shell size. Instead, all the NTN boot sizes from about 26 and down have the same length forefoot sole, and all the boot sizes above ~26 have the same size forefoot sole, and it's about 20mm longer than the small duckbutt-to-toe sole.

My mistake (original post above) was in the opposite direction. I initially got the size small Freedom binding because I had Garmont 26.5 size boots and thought I'd read that size takes the small binding. But the Garmont 26.5 had the large size forefoot sole so I needed the large bindings. After a short time on snow I realized the Garmont/Scott toe box was too small and shaped wrong for my foot. I got a pair of Scarpa TX in 26.5 and they are great (Scarpas still run big apparently, or just have a roomier toe box), and are made to fit the size large NTN binding.
cdn-dave wrote: ...Of course, this could be an opportunity to try something different Image Meidjo? Bishop? What‘s the current favorite?
Haven't skied the Bishop but it wouldn't matter which size boot you have because it doesn't use the duckbutt. I've been following the Meidjo, but I really like the Outlaw and the Freedom. I prefer the activity feel of the Freedom over the Outlaw, but someone who likes high activity that is progressive--stronger activity the more the heel is raised--may like the Outlaw activity better. I've always preferred a somewhat more neutral activity level, or at least one that is not too progressive. There are ways to set up the Outlaw so it's less active, but then it feels like you're missing out on its best feature, like setting up a Hammerhead or Axle for low activity. And it wasn't so much that I wanted low activity but just less progressivity. Either way, the NTN Freedom was a good match for that for me--good initial activity that doesn't increase resistance as your heel rises. Once I got used to the initial activity, the Freedom has been my favorite binding ever. Powerful edge control that feels the same as the FreeRide, and is a complete change in feel from all 75mm tele bindings I've skied. The Outlaw also has that super powerful edge control.

The Rottefella Freedom is fully step in for me with ski brakes because I use the boot toe to push down the lever, then push the other lever down with the other ski. So I step into the Freedom without bending over. There is a trick to pushing the boot toe in while compressing the ski brake but that became second nature after a couple step-ins.

The Outlaw has a very easy step in too, but was difficult to get it to work with ski-brakes. They've improved step-in with the Outlaw X but I still don't know anyone at my area resorts using the Outlaw with ski-brakes. Since step-in with ski brakes was one reason I tried out NTN, the Freedom's easy ski brake set up made the Outlaw a no-go for me. (Also, in version one, some of the Outlaw footplates were breaking--I heard they fixed that. Iterative beta product development is part of the experience with Rainey/22 Designs.) For someone who's fine not using brakes, the Outlaw has better step-out than the Freedom because to step out of the Outlaw, you use your pole tip to push down on a binding tab, not unlike with AT/Alpine bindings. Whereas with the Freedom and Freeride you lift up a lever which means bending over unless you have a way to pull the lever with a ski pole handle. If you're not using brakes with the Outlaw, you still bend over to clip/unclip leashes. Maybe brake function is better now with new versions of the Outlaw X--I haven't seen a report.

The Outlaw has a fully free touring pivot familiar on the recent generation of free pivoting tele bindings like Switchbacks. The Freedom has much freer pivot than the FreeRide with much more open pivot angle than the FreeRide. In use I've found the Freedom to feel like a fully free touring pivot.

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Re: Rottefella Freedom powerbox large vs. small?

Post by cdn-dave » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:37 am

Thanks for the detailed reply! I do like my Freerides, probably even a little more than the Freedoms. With the Freedons I had a few issues of snow buildup and getting stuck in the binding. Only after practicing switch

I contacted Rottefella as well about converting either binding from large to small, they said no, I have to buy a complete new binding...

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