What would you change about NNN-BC?

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MikeK

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What would you change about NNN-BC?

Postby MikeK » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:27 pm

Imagine for a second that Rottefella licensed NNN (BC) out to other companies (I think they have kind of done this with standard NNN as Salomon now makes bindings that are compatible with their boots). What would you change? What could be done better? At what price?

Johnny mentioned the sliding mounting plate - that would be cool. I'd like to see the base plate be made from Aluminum rather than plastic.

The actual clamps that hold the boot down are pretty stout, and are steel - I wouldn't want that changed, but perhaps they could be made even more robust?

Parts of the linkage to open and close could be made from aluminum to save the some weight, and maybe simplified a little bit - it is a self-locking, non-back driving, over-center type mechanism. Lots of ways exist to accomplish that function.

Perhaps the plastic parts could be made out of something like the risers on other Tele bindings?

How would you make it ski better? Or would you?

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lilcliffy

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Re: What would you change about NNN-BC?

Postby lilcliffy » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:26 am

Climbing wires.

Went for a tour in very steep terrain yesterday. Used skins to get up some VERY steep switchbacks. Climbing wires would be much appreciated.
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Re: What would you change about NNN-BC?

Postby MikeK » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:29 am

That's an easy mod.

Remove the sliding heel pad and replace it with one from Voile - the thin one from the Mountaineer or 3PC should work without the shim.

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Re: What would you change about NNN-BC?

Postby lilcliffy » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:53 am

DUH- you are a smart man- not sure why I didn't think of that. Must be 14 years of sleep deprivation.
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MikeK

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Re: What would you change about NNN-BC?

Postby MikeK » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:58 am

lilcliffy wrote:DUH- you are a smart man- not sure why I didn't think of that. Must be 14 years of sleep deprivation.


I didn't actually - I saw that Johnny did that on his ;)

I'm just passing it on...

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lowangle al

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Re: What would you change about NNN-BC?

Postby lowangle al » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:47 am

lilcliffy wrote:Climbing wires.

Went for a tour in very steep terrain yesterday. Used skins to get up some VERY steep switchbacks. Climbing wires would be much appreciated.


Someone used to sell a heel riser made of a piece of pvc pipe and bungy cords that you wore around your boot putting the pvc under your heel when climbing. I'll post a picture if I can find mine, they would be easy to make.

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Re: What would you change about NNN-BC?

Postby Bri7 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:27 pm

A touring mode would be nice. Something that remove (or move forward) the flexor during uphill travel and put it back to its original place when going down.

As soon as I retire I'll make a pair :)

Cable nnn bc would also be nice for resort use :) I already modified a pair of NNN boots to accept cables.

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Re: What would you change about NNN-BC?

Postby MikeK » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:34 pm

Bri7 wrote:A touring mode would be nice. Something that remove (or move forward) the flexor during uphill travel and put it back to its original place when going down.

As soon as I retire I'll make a pair :)

Cable nnn bc would also be nice for resort use :) I already modified a pair of NNN boots to accept cables.


The first one would be tricky, but I have had (and like) the idea of a variable stiffness from the flexor. Perhaps even an entirely different mech that houses springs with a lost motion option for free pivot.

You need to start making blocks for cable NNN-BC. Then you can convince the boot makers to add that groove. Then you'll be able to retire with all the money you make. See how that works ;)

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Re: What would you change about NNN-BC?

Postby lilcliffy » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:18 pm

Bri7 wrote:A touring mode would be nice. Something that remove (or move forward) the flexor during uphill travel and put it back to its original place when going down.

What I have done- if it is really steep and need skins- is remove the flexor while climbing...(it is quite easy to knock the snow out of the binding at the top of the hill).

I only do this for when I haul out the skins because you do lose some "kick" without the flexor (I have confirmation of this from Rottefella btw). In other words, you lose some traction without the flexor- but you do gain a wider range of motion.

From my perspective, the only reason to remove the flexor is to get a wider range of movement when climbing (i.e. turn into a truly free-pivot binding). However- I find that if it is steep enough that I need that wider range of motion I also need the assist of the climbing wires...

Now- once I get climbing wires installed- I will remove the flexor when it is steep enough to require the climbing wires.

Cable nnn bc would also be nice for resort use :) I already modified a pair of NNN boots to accept cables.


This is an interesting notion...not sure what I think about it. Not being an engineer- I wonder whether this road eventually leads to NTN?

There is an inherent point of weakness in any Nordic binding- the boot is only attached at the toe/BOF...The more rigid and active the boot and binding become, the more force is placed on the point of attachment...

I know that all kinds of wonderous things can be done to make things light and strong- but AT will always have a HUGE advantage over Nordic- in terms of strength to weight ratios- because the boot is attached at the front and the heel when it is under downhill stress...

By putting cables on NNNBC- the next move is more and more rigid boots, with more and more leverage- doesn't this lead back to NTN?
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Re: What would you change about NNN-BC?

Postby w8n4snow » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:38 pm

Been skiing nnn-BC for at least 15 years and have yet to break a binding! I could say the same for dynafit bindings I spose...

Biggest problem I see with the binders is that the life of the elastomer is rather short. Ski shops around here (snicker) want $$ for em. Anyone have a good source?

My biggest beef is with the nnnbc boot sole. The rubber compound is a little bit hard for our cold winters up here at 64deg North. Hiking on cold rocks, creek ice, frozen tundra etc can be tricky- vibram duckbills much better. Have not used the salomon boot but like the looks of the sole. Yeah it's a ski boot not a hiking boot, but the best ski boots do both well. Which leads me to my last chunk o beef. If we're going to revamp the nnnbc sole, let's make it compatible with step in crampons. Yeah we do stuff like that around here...


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