Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

I picked up a set of 2009 BD Havocs mounted with G3 targas on Craigs List. "pins" on the balance point. These skis seem like they'll be fun on piste, and I plan to use them for lift served skill building (as soon as I work out an unrelated issue with boots). I'd also like to use them for BC touring for turns... but have discovered (in my backyard, fortunately) that the tips dive horribly in deep snow when attempting to K&G. It's a total non-starter. I'm not going to put any money into these skis (I'd sooner just use them for resort only or sell them), so G3 Targas it will stay, but my question is: would moving the bindings forward (how much?) be a reasonable solution to the tip dive problem and make these a viable BC ski without compromising (too much) downhill handling?

My wife tours with targas and doesn't have any complaints. I wouldn't remount them. Moving the binding forward sounds like it would make the problem worse to me. The skis may work fine on the down when you have some speed to get them to plane up.

More info: the problem occurred during an attempt to break trail in 18" of freshly fallen powder, blizzard still in progress (hey, I was bored). So I swapped out for the Hoks, and they did fine in those challenging conditions.

Just now, I gave another try: the snow has been on the ground 3 days and today it's about 36 - 37. It's settled from 18 to perhaps 12. The Havocs work fine in this snow. It's denser, they don't sink as deep, the tip glides on top of the snow when driven forward, it's all good. I guess the lesson is: a) take the Hoks if taking on a bizzard in progress , b) keep learning about snow!

IF I remember correctly, those Havocs are pretty stiff, especially in the tip. I would not want to break trail with a stiff ski and an active(ish)binding because I would think the tip would dive, like you described, especially when climbing. Hoks are pretty much made for breaking trail: fat, soft, maneuverable, and with great traction. The Havocs should be a great setup for groomers. And I agree with Al, moving the bindings forward would only worsen your problem IMO.

I'm in agreement with all the above observations.
I will add: I have my doubts as to whether the balance point was the optimal pin line location for the Havocs. That is more a rule of thumb for a dedicated xc ski. Havocs were more likely a pin line on chord center rig, or thereabouts. May be a part of the story. But, as has been said, they're a stiffer flexed forebody, which won't help.