Just throwing this out there...

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lowangle al
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Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:36 pm

Re: Just throwing this out there...

Postby lowangle al » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:01 pm

Harris wrote:Does anyone else think the modern telemark racing with its turnarounds and uphill skating in NTNs is a joke? I'm all for backcountry races, where all the skills all demanded, but skiing gates in a skin suit with XC poling just seems wrong. I'd rather see a slalom course and true GS. Frankly.


I'm with you on this Harris, and I don't think it does much to promote our sport. When and where do they have these races and who oversees them?

Harris
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:08 pm

Re: Just throwing this out there...

Postby Harris » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:58 pm

When I was a kid during the mid-80s, I never heard of these types of races. What I did race (Summit and Wasatch Series) were NASTAResque dual slalom with a pro-jump. Distance was not measured. I expected the racing to go more alpine (true slalom and GS) from there, and then this happened. But to each their own. It seems popular enough. In fact a friend of mine actually found a job as a head coach with the Steamboat Winter Sports Club Telemark team.

dorthman
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Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:14 pm

Re: Just throwing this out there...

Postby dorthman » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:45 am

I think it's really cool!!

The course layouts kind of remind me of mtb dual slalom, 4x. Do they still do that?

The banked turn and skate are a welcome addition ti the pretty basic dh race format IMO.

A series of banked turns and a longer skate section would be even more interesting....imo

oggopoggo
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:45 pm

Re: Just throwing this out there...

Postby oggopoggo » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:27 am

The speed suits and NTN do look a bit out there but that's the direction racing goes. Before the Olympics were in Utah there was a vote at the Telemark World Championships as to whether wider skis with sidecut would be allowed. At the time most were competing with cable bindings but everyone was on 3 pin before that, particularly because of the brutal skate. At the World's at Whistler some were still in leather boots and the jump was over 60'. More than a decade before terrain parks were invented the Canadian Nationals at Silverstar had a jump well over 90' to a hidden gate set on a fall away turn. Some guy on alpine gear poached it, thinking it was "just for telemarkers". We saw the patrol take him out (unconscious) on a sled on our way to the start gate.

The races are (or were?) unbelievably difficult. The alpine coaches at Whistler loved it, saying it was like the downhill used to be (desperate). The telemarkers at the Utah World's were all former National team skiers from alpine, cross-country, mogul and ski jumping. Courses are partly anaerobic so collapsing at the finish line or throwing up was not unusual. I highly recommend anyone with solid skills enter a Classic, even if NTN makes it easier (not sure if you can enter the same races anymore mind you. They just used to move one gate and send you down the World Cup race course after 50 guys rutted it up).

iBjorn
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:21 pm

Re: Just throwing this out there...

Postby iBjorn » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:58 pm

They might look silly with race suit and long poles - but doesnt the race suit people of regular GS or cross-country look silly to?

Nonetheless, these races doesnt seem to be for the faint hearted. The GS section seems to be quite fast, the jumps are long and the ending skate section seems to take lactic acid to new level... Personally, I rather see telemark racing on TV than regular GS or cross-country.

Harris
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:08 pm

Re: Just throwing this out there...

Postby Harris » Wed May 03, 2017 8:05 pm

I think my point is this... Skate-skiing on modern tele gear is to me is more akin to skate skiing on alpine gear than it does tribute to cross country skiing. And the jumping on NTN is more extinct gelande than nordic. I'm in no way saying these races aren't stupid hard, but using modern telemark gear is way more dedicated alpine than it is XC. I think a far better platform that would fit modern telemarkers just dying to go uphill is the skimo, the skin up/skate down races. And/or an BC XC course that includes downhills. But this classic thing, which is not exactly historically "classic" (I raced tele races in the mid-80s), is to me just plain odd. Like a Chrysler K car odd. But, I don't know. If you had asked me in 1984 where the racing was headed I would've told you it would start moving towards difficult alpine GS and slalom courses. Instead it seems like a disjointed and confused hodge podge. Why not throw a shooting section in as well. You could make it stupid hard to where you can only use flintlocks. Admittedly telemark didn't go in the direction I thought it would; it kinda did, but then again didn't.
Last edited by Harris on Wed May 03, 2017 8:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Harris
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:08 pm

Re: Just throwing this out there...

Postby Harris » Wed May 03, 2017 8:23 pm

Just so people realize I'm not talking out my ass... Mid-80's low leather lace=up, 3 pin, 75 mm telemark racing prior to wide skis, cable bindings and factory plastic boots. 1397815_10151777273976811_12386360_o.jpg
1397815_10151777273976811_12386360_o.jpg
1397815_10151777273976811_12386360_o.jpg (578.03 KiB) Viewed 814 times

iBjorn
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:21 pm

Re: Just throwing this out there...

Postby iBjorn » Thu May 04, 2017 7:07 am

I can agree that the current tele racing favors NTN and four buckle boots, nonetheless it seems funny.

To favor more classic tele gear, just make the skating section longer. If it is long enough it will even favor NNN-bindings and skis.

telemarkmark
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 11:15 am

Re: Just throwing this out there...

Postby telemarkmark » Thu May 04, 2017 8:54 am

A more all round Tele race would be great with skinning and classic added in. It would have to be a careful balance, of climbing, flat and downhill. It would do great things for the development of lightweight tele bindings and (hopefully) boots. If so would feed back into the touring community.

iBjorn
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:21 pm

Re: Just throwing this out there...

Postby iBjorn » Sat May 06, 2017 1:03 am

The race form should highlight the advantages of the sport. Tele racing in its current form combines downhill, ski jumping and cross-country

As I see it, telemarks advantage is the easy combination and esy transition between downhill, uphill and cross-country (either classic or skate).

In skimo racing the only advantage telemark equipment has is in the skating sessions following downhill. So the answer to a race form that highlight the advantages of the telemark, would be to mix uphill, downhill and cross-country. Could also add booting and rappeling moments. Preferably it would be not to long sections of each, rather have frequent transitions


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