Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

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12gaugesage

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Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby 12gaugesage » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:52 am

Hi all, new member here, been reading TT posts for a while, good stuff here. Anyway, novice skier, 4th season owning my own gear, last year doesn't count, all ice, so still learning, no ski "pedigree"of any kind. Entering obsession level this season.
Looking to round out my quiver with a good general purpose BC ski. Something more BC capable than my Spider 62, and more efficient than my Hoks. I'm between the E88 and the Kom, my sense is the 88 will tour more efficiently in firmer snow, but be less capable in powder and on descents, and the Kom will give me more room to grow into as far as tele turns and control on steeps. Ultimately I'll hopefully end up with both :D .
The 88 is available locally on sale, and I dig the easy skin setup, which makes me lean toward it at the moment, it also probably matches my skill level a bit more, but is it silly to use it to learn/practice turns in a more descent focused manner?
I'm in the MWV of NH, so conditions are entirely variable and unpredictable, and all kinds of terrain options are available. I really want to do the Pemi traverse next season, but also want to push myself on the more DH oriented up and down type stuff we have.
If I get the 88 will I be held back on my descending/turning progress, and will they absolutely suck in deeper powder? If I get the Kom will I suffer on longer tours, or on hard pack?

I'll be going NNNBC with Fischer bcx6 on the 88s and 3pc/T4s on the Koms by the way, which further muddies the decision I realize.

Thanks
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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby Cannatonic » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:13 pm

so the Sbound 88's are on sale at Ragged Mountain? Thanks for the tip! just kidding. Looks like the Koms are going to be better in deep powder, Sbound 88's probably faster on consolidated snow and long approaches. Koms would be fun though, the scales on a wide, low-camber ski like that are probably enough to go up things like the Tuckerman Ravine trail. A kicker skin on something like the Excursion 88 is perfect for going up that trail.

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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby connyro » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:40 pm

The 88's and the Koms are very, very different skis. You may want to look at something somewhere in between, unless you are looking to do turns/climbs in tight, steeper terrain (Koms) or more touring with some turns involved here and there (88's). The Voile Objective BCs or the Madshus Annum or Fischer S Bound 112 are all scaled skis somewhere in-between the two skis you mentioned. They may be worth a look.

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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby 12gaugesage » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:54 pm

Cannatonic wrote:so the Sbound 88's are on sale at Ragged Mountain? Thanks for the tip! just kidding. Looks like the Koms are going to be better in deep powder, Sbound 88's probably faster on consolidated snow and long approaches. Koms would be fun though, the scales on a wide, low-camber ski like that are probably enough to go up things like the Tuckerman Ravine trail. A kicker skin on something like the Excursion 88 is perfect for going up that trail.


Ha! Actually they might be, I thought I saw them at Gorham bike and ski, went there today to kick around Jackson ski touring (credit card in hand), and sadly they only had the traverse 78, so now I'm not sure if I saw them at Ragged and confused the stores or was confused altogether. I better hit Ragged tomorrow, just to know ;) . That place is a paycheck thief.
Haven't been up to Tucks in the winter ever, I'm a bit intimidated, I understand there is some mellower stuff on the lower part of the bowl? Would the 88 be enough ski for a place like that?
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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby Woodserson » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:57 pm

Yo 12Gaugesage

You are on the right track, I like where you're going with this! The MWV has everything for both of these skis.

From Pinkham the Old Jackson Rd-Carriage Rd- Connie's Way would be perfect for the 88's, as would Wildcat Valley Trail and this other trail that descends the west side of the valley back to Conway-direction, the name escapes me right now and my maps are far from hand. The Kanc has a lot of decent skiing too, and Zealand Road can be excellent. There's a lot of ideal rolling touring for these skis in your neck. Some of these trails are isolated, don't get in over your head by your lonesome!

The KOMs will be awesome on the DoubleHead ski trail, the Sherburne Ski Trail from Hermit Lake down (have a gander in the bowl on foot or ski up walk down but know your limits above the Hermit Lake Shelter), the Gulf of Slides ski trail (not the slides until you get better), and other more up and down oriented tours.

They are very different skis suited to different things as Connryo nicely describes, but both have a strong place in the MWV. Your call as to how to proceed. I will toss out a suggestion that you think about mounting the same bindings (75mm) on both skis and that way you can use your T4/Excursion boot on both, and a softer leather boot when you're going to be in flatter terrain on the 88s. I use both boots on my S-Bound skis depending on what I'm doing and what conditions warrant. I'm almost always on a leather boot on the 88's but when I skin up a resort for some downhill practice sometimes I wear my plastics. That may make switching around as you build your quiver a little easier. Just food for thought. There is a sacrifice to kick and glide with the T4's on the 88's, for sure.

Both skis good, they do different things, you have terrain and options for both.

Good luck, have fun, go skiing, practice!

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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby 12gaugesage » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:35 am

connyro wrote:The 88's and the Koms are very, very different skis. You may want to look at something somewhere in between, unless you are looking to do turns/climbs in tight, steeper terrain (Koms) or more touring with some turns involved here and there (88's). The Voile Objective BCs or the Madshus Annum or Fischer S Bound 112 are all scaled skis somewhere in-between the two skis you mentioned. They may be worth a look.


Yeah, I feared someone more ski wise than I would say this, and no doubt it's sound advice. The Annum and s112 were on my list too but I'm leery to get another compromise ski just to have to end up with 2 more ski's down the road anyway.
My first ski was the Spider, a compromise on BC/float so it would fit a groomed Nordic track, and while it gave me the ability to hit Nordic centers and snowmobile trails, in another sense it's a slow track ski, and a limited use BC ski. I ended up with a twin skin pro for track skiing anyway. My Hoks are jeeps, and they'll go anywhere, but they don't glide much and at my size/skill they are a bit unstable on the descent and a bit weak on float in dry powder. That being said Ive pushed them on longish tours, to approach a couple 4k footers and wallowed around on steeper descents (survival skiing) as well.

Im just getting to a point where i feel like my gear is holding me back a little.

Just looked up those Voile Objective BC's, damn, those look useful... I'm intrigued

Now, I realize there are always compromises, and eventually I'll probably have two ski's comparable to the ones I mentioned just trying to figure out which way to go for the immediate future.

Theres such a deep range of skis, boots and bindings, then techniques, its pretty daunting to understand what you need.
Thanks for the advice!
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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby 12gaugesage » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:28 am

Woodserson wrote:Yo 12Gaugesage

You are on the right track, I like where you're going with this! The MWV has everything for both of these skis.

From Pinkham the Old Jackson Rd-Carriage Rd- Connie's Way would be perfect for the 88's, as would Wildcat Valley Trail and this other trail that descends the west side of the valley back to Conway-direction, the name escapes me right now and my maps are far from hand. The Kanc has a lot of decent skiing too, and Zealand Road can be excellent. There's a lot of ideal rolling touring for these skis in your neck. Some of these trails are isolated, don't get in over your head by your lonesome!

The KOMs will be awesome on the DoubleHead ski trail, the Sherburne Ski Trail from Hermit Lake down (have a gander in the bowl on foot or ski up walk down but know your limits above the Hermit Lake Shelter), the Gulf of Slides ski trail (not the slides until you get better), and other more up and down oriented tours.

They are very different skis suited to different things as Connryo nicely describes, but both have a strong place in the MWV. Your call as to how to proceed. I will toss out a suggestion that you think about mounting the same bindings (75mm) on both skis and that way you can use your T4/Excursion boot on both, and a softer leather boot when you're going to be in flatter terrain on the 88s. I use both boots on my S-Bound skis depending on what I'm doing and what conditions warrant. I'm almost always on a leather boot on the 88's but when I skin up a resort for some downhill practice sometimes I wear my plastics. That may make switching around as you build your quiver a little easier. Just food for thought. There is a sacrifice to kick and glide with the T4's on the 88's, for sure.

Both skis good, they do different things, you have terrain and options for both.

Good luck, have fun, go skiing, practice!


Thanks for the response Woodserson, you're listing my dreams and struggles!
I believe the trail west of the Wildcat Valley trail your referring to is the Avalanche Brook trail? Its on my to do list, (its a long list) just got to get some more appropriate gear, and skills and confidence of course.
I have been up to Zealand with the Hoks, via Spruce moose, great fun, but a more efficient ski would make it even better. I was pretty smoked. Gorgeous area though.
Ive also attempted Doublehead with the Hoks, when I was still using the 125's and uni binding. Got about half way up and watched folks on big ski's/AT gear (competent skiers) ripping turns down past me and realized I was pushing my luck, survival skied back down with my head hung low... Ive been tempted to give it another go now that I have the T4's on the 145's. I live just a few miles from DH, Ive actually fatbiked it in the winter and hiked and biked it in the summer, love those mountains.

I have hit Oliverian/Downes on the Hoks, 145's with NNNBC, in deep powder earlier this past Febuary, and even though I was submarining all the way up and down, it was awesome. I actually felt like a real BC skier at times.

Anyway, I get the impression that the 88's with a 75mm would be pretty capable, would I be disappointed with the control of nnnbc on them? The skis are probably appropriate for most of what Im actually capable of. You say you'll hit lift served terrain with them, which is another thing I'd like to be able to do.

I suspect the KOMs are probably a tad more versatile but I'll be more fatigued on long days. I am intrigued with them for quick backwoods play sessions too, I often take my Hoks out for quickies on the narrow hiking/mtb and abandoned XC trails out my back door, and the KOMs in 162 seem like a great next step...

I want to hit the ground running hard next season, but cant swing two more ski's right away. I think Ill go with whatever I can get the best deal on, seems either ski will be pretty capable.

Sorry to get long winded, thanks for your time!
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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby Cannatonic » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:36 pm

wow, I didn't know about the other shopping options up there, thanks, will have to check out Gorham Bike & Ski and the Jackson Touring store. I think Great Glen trails also has a backcountry gear shop.

These skis are all versatile, I've gone up & down Tucks and Sherbie trail on stiff E99-type skis, coming down wasn't pretty but they worked fine. My current fishscale ski for touring around Pinkham on the trails or Sherburne would probably be my 200cm Sbound78. I like more camber and length so the skis don't feel so slow on the flat parts. The snow is often consolidated too, I'd only want more width in winter powder. In truly deep powder the flotation becomes really important.

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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby Lo-Fi » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:20 pm

I have guide/annums and Koms.

I also just had a fun day with a group of four guys who all had the hoks, and while I was on the Koms, I got to observe and try the hoks. It was funny to see how much the choice of ski/skoe determined the terrain they sought out. The hok climbs like crazy so their lines up were mostly too steep for the Koms. The hoks also don't glide that well so they looked for very steep areas to just get and keep some momentum. The hoks are so short that they could manoeuvre through super tight hemlock stands. The combined effect was mostly past the limit of the Koms - or certainly of me on the Koms. The terrain demanded that they did a lot of jump turns and skidding, leaned back, truncated tele and parallel turns.

To a snowshoer the hoks may seem like a ski, but at least to this skier, they seemed a bit more like snowshoes.

Koms really are and act like a smooth, fast gliding, floating, carving, and true ski compared to the hoks. They float nicely in soft snow and pivot and can bite in on harder snow.

The Koms do feel like they shuffle more than kick&glide compared to the the longer, narrower, lighter and more nimble feeling guide/annums . However, when you get to your turning slopes, the Koms are more fun than the guide/annums.
.

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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby 12gaugesage » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:57 pm

Cannatonic wrote:wow, I didn't know about the other shopping options up there, thanks, will have to check out Gorham Bike & Ski and the Jackson Touring store. I think Great Glen trails also has a backcountry gear shop.

These skis are all versatile, I've gone up & down Tucks and Sherbie trail on stiff E99-type skis, coming down wasn't pretty but they worked fine. My current fishscale ski for touring around Pinkham on the trails or Sherburne would probably be my 200cm Sbound78. I like more camber and length so the skis don't feel so slow on the flat parts. The snow is often consolidated too, I'd only want more width in winter powder. In truly deep powder the flotation becomes really important.


Thanks for the info, just to clarify, Gorham bike and ski is the store inside Jackson ski touring center. Good little store, mostly Nordic, all Fischer ski's. GGT has a nice shop too, with a slightly better BC selection, still mostly Nordic.

Seems like technique can make a touring ski turn well enough, but conditioning can push a less efficient, turny ski through a longer tour. I probably have more strength than technique at this point. Perhaps a middle of the road ski is prudent.
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