Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

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12gaugesage
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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby 12gaugesage » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:08 pm

So I took a chance and pulled the trigger on the Traverse 78's. $240. No 88's available locally or online at least in 189. I am curious about the Eon, but looks like we have about a foot coming this weekend and I want to go play in it. Comparing it to the Spider 62 its noticeably more ski, so I went for it.

The S98 was intriguing, but a few folks have said it doesn't track great, and its more up and down/turn oriented, and I think I'd prefer something shorter and wider for that type of thing when I get to that point, not really sure.

Got out to test it at a local spot that has some groomed (not in a few weeks) nordic trails, footpaths and plenty of hills and woods to play in.
Conditions were everything from ice to corn to slush, and a sunny 45 degrees, good test day IMO. I had the Spiders out there yesterday so I had a good comparison, a bit colder and crustier yesterday.

Very surprised at how much of a difference a few millimeters makes. The stability underfoot is instantly noticeable, at first I thought the ski was stiffer, but I think it was more a matter of it floating at the waist better. The tips ride the top of the snow a good deal better as well. Didnt feel any slower than the Spiders, presumably due to the additional float, actually felt a bit faster where I was breaking trail. Seemed to turn easier too, Im not cranking tele turns or anything, but they would come around with less effort than the Spiders. Dont know if thats a result of the sidecut or the tips sitting on top of the snow better. Also seems easier to get the tails to slide. Possibly Im just more confident with a bit more width/stability underfoot, and putting more into it, or maybe the float keeps the edges from biting in so hard? Not sure, but it was noticeable. Ultimately I think at my weight the Spiders just werent enough ski for anything but firm packed snow.

Anyway, Im gonna hit the Nannamocomuck trail this weekend in some fresh snow and we'll see how that goes. Im not expecting a miracle in float in deeper snow, but they seem that they will be at least a little more BC worthy. Still wish I could have gotten the 88's.... And the Koms still kind of speak to me

Thanks for all the advice, Im sure Ill have more questions.
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Woodserson
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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby Woodserson » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:45 pm

The 78 will certainly get you started. I enjoyed many years on mine.

FWIW The 98's are an "up-and-down" ski in this class of ski, as a nordic BC ski optimized for K&G... you're going to find that the KOMs/Objectives, etc or other true up-down skis with less camber and smoother/softer flex are entirely different animals.

12gaugesage
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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby 12gaugesage » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:14 am

Woodserson wrote:The 78 will certainly get you started. I enjoyed many years on mine.

FWIW The 98's are an "up-and-down" ski in this class of ski, as a nordic BC ski optimized for K&G... you're going to find that the KOMs/Objectives, etc or other true up-down skis with less camber and smoother/softer flex are entirely different animals.



I have so limited experience, I'm winging it trying to comprehend how different ski's perform, it's daunting. I probably could use the float of the 98, but I don't have a light 75mm boot, and I doubt NNNBC is enough for a ski that large, especially at my skill level.

Anyway we got our foot, I'm giving those 78's hell today. Another foot on Tuesday, this winter keeps on giving!
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lilcliffy
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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby lilcliffy » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:06 am

12gaugesage wrote:I have so limited experience, I'm winging it trying to comprehend how different ski's perform, it's daunting. I probably could use the float of the 98, but I don't have a light 75mm boot, and I doubt NNNBC is enough for a ski that large, especially at my skill level.

Anyway we got our foot, I'm giving those 78's hell today. Another foot on Tuesday, this winter keeps on giving!


I will be very interested in your experiences with the Traverse 78. I have pursued this class of Nordic touring ski to the end of the world almost! I was about to give up- concluding that they were too much of a compromise for my taste- then I bought my Asnes Combat Nato...

It is a weird class of ski-

doesn't cover distance as efficiently as a BC-XC ski like the E-99;

doesn't offer any more effective flotation that a BC-XC ski like the E-99;

doesn't offer anywhere near the downhill performance of a more downhill-oriented XC ski like the 88/98/112 (and nowhere close to a ski like the Kom);

but- this class of ski does climb more efficiently and is somewhat "easier to turn" than a BC-XC ski like the E-99...

I say "somewhat" because as long as I prevent myself from becoming obsessed with carving perfect teles on XC skis like these- a ski like the E-99 is really just as manageable on the downhill- just depends on technique...

I don't know anything about the new 78- some are suggesting it is even stiffer than the previous S-Bound 78- with the Nordic-rockered tip- this should make it incredibly close to the current E-109. And- other than when carving downhill turns- I find the rockered tip more of a liability than an asset on XC skis this narrow...

With regards to skis with dimensions like the 98- I think you would be disappointed with the effective flotation of the 98 at your weight. I weigh less than you (unless I am mistaken)- I need to be on a ski at least as wide as the 112/Annum in order to get any truly effective flotation in very deep, soft snow. For example- your Hoks will offer more effective flotation than the 98.

This may be very different for a much lighter skier- but, in my limited experience, skis like the 98/Epoch are not "powder" skis- they are turny, XC skis with a ton of sidecut.

Based on my limited tests- I notice NO difference in effective flotation between the 88 and the 98 (they are the same width underfoot after all). And Woods' recent testimony on the 88 vs. 98 suggests that the flex and tip rocker of the 88 make it a better XCD ski overall...

If you truly want a powder XCD ski- I think you are going to end up with something much wider than the 98/88...
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

12gaugesage
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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby 12gaugesage » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:27 pm

Got a few sessions in on the 78's. Went out last Saturday, around 14" of wet snow, low angle terrain. Did about 10 miles, out and back, breaking trail on the way out was a chore in that heavy snow, quads were feeling it on Sunday. Definitely could use more float, but they were better than the Spiders by far and more efficient than the Hoks. Still think they feel stiffer, more stable and turnier than the Spiders, traction was excellent.

Went out again on Monday for a quick 5 miler on a mix of groomed XC, lightly trodden snowshoe trails and some untouched BC trails and glades. Snow was much more consolidated, and they felt pretty good, just enough float and still light and quick on the packed sections.

So, they're better than what I had, and perhaps I'll discover their optimum range of conditions, but still a bit limited.

Well have to see how much snow is left after this rain, and then high temps this weekend. Gonna try to sneak in another tour somewhere before the seasons out.

I'm starting to think I'll need a different ski for every potential condition.

Heeding every ones advice, I went back and grabbed those 112's for $240. Didnt get'em drilled yet, just figured it was too good of a deal to pass up. Ill have a decent deep snow ski ready for next season. Playing with them in the store they are pretty light and pretty stiff, so perhaps theyll be just what the doctor ordered.

Thank you guys for taking the time to educate me, I truly appreciate it.

I might see about finding a tele instructor for next season, try to get this stuff nailed down.
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lilcliffy
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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby lilcliffy » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:02 pm

12gaugesage wrote:Got a few sessions in on the 78's.

So, they're better than what I had, and perhaps I'll discover their optimum range of conditions, but still a bit limited.

I am afraid you've caught the disease- the XCD-performance-obsessed disease! The reason you are ho-hum about the T-78 is because it is a "jack-of-all-trades" compromise class of skis.

For those that are less performance obsessed, a ski in the class of the T-78 is the perfect ski because it is reasonably good at everything- and especially- it is manageable enough to get you down difficult slopes in the BC. All the skis in this class are slightly different- the one that is "best"- be it Eon/T-78/E-109/Ingstad (etc.)- depends on skier weight and the typical snow you find on your tour. Regardless- in the end you will be glad you have it- but, most of the time you will find it to be a compromise- which makes sense because it just is!!! :roll: 8-) :D

I'm starting to think I'll need a different ski for every potential condition.

Like I said...it is a disease...

I work extra contract work every year to keep up with this habit so that my children don't go without... :oops:

Heeding every ones advice, I went back and grabbed those 112's for $240.

Wicked. Wicked ski. Wicked price.
Didnt get'em drilled yet,

What binding and boot you going to put on it?

I might see about finding a tele instructor for next season, try to get this stuff nailed down.


No matter what the best teacher is time- ski, ski, ski and then ski some more.

And the only advice I could give you- you are already doing- rack up the miles- it will build strength, balance and fitness- you will not only get to see more country, but when you point those sticks down the hill, you will have the strength and balance to respond to whatever those backcountry slopes through at you.
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

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fisheater
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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby fisheater » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:56 pm

Mr. Sage. where did you get those E-78's? That is a better price than I can find online. and I have not seen any left at 189 cm.
I am tying to avoid GAS (gear acquisition syndrome), but hanging out here avoiding GAS is like trying to avoid gambling in a casino.
Funny thing, I had a buddy get married in Vegas. I didn't gamble at all. I spent all the non-wedding time skiing!

12gaugesage
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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby 12gaugesage » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:10 pm

lilcliffy wrote:I am afraid you've caught the disease- the XCD-performance-obsessed disease! The reason you are ho-hum about the T-78 is because it is a "jack-of-all-trades" compromise class of skis.

For those that are less performance obsessed, a ski in the class of the T-78 is the perfect ski because it is reasonably good at everything- and especially- it is manageable enough to get you down difficult slopes in the BC. All the skis in this class are slightly different- the one that is "best"- be it Eon/T-78/E-109/Ingstad (etc.)- depends on skier weight and the typical snow you find on your tour. Regardless- in the end you will be glad you have it- but, most of the time you will find it to be a compromise- which makes sense because it just is!!! :roll: 8-) :D


I know, I keep trying to convince myself I only need a small quiver.... I really am starting to think that at my size what works so well for smaller folks just isn't enough. A couple locals Ive talked to love the 78s for everything BCXC, but they are lighter people, I suspect the length to width ratios just work better for them. I dont think I want to go too much longer than 190, and of course, at least in the case of Fischer thats the limit anyway, so wider is the only option

lilcliffy wrote:Like I said...it is a disease...

I work extra contract work every year to keep up with this habit so that my children don't go without... :oops:



If you saw my shed full of bikes or my room full of packs and boots, you would see how familiar I am with this disease.
I was trying to not do that with skis....

lilcliffy wrote:What binding and boot you going to put on it?

Probably 3pc, I have a pair of t4's, could probably try out some lift serve stuff with that combo, a local mountain has started offering a skinning day pass, cheaper than a lift ticket you just have to get yourself to the top. Should be a good way to develop technique in controlled conditions.
I also intend to get a lighter 75mm boot for more distance oriented days... Any suggestions? Hows the Rossi x12? Fischer BC6 or 8?
The T4s do kind of make my feet feel dead, as in I dont get much feedback, but, every slight movement of my foot translates directly to the ski, which is pretty amazing.
I'd love to be able to run nnnbc, but I dont know that I could pull it off with a big ski like that. Maybe if I could get my hands on the Svartisens...

lilcliffy wrote:No matter what the best teacher is time- ski, ski, ski and then ski some more.

And the only advice I could give you- you are already doing- rack up the miles- it will build strength, balance and fitness- you will not only get to see more country, but when you point those sticks down the hill, you will have the strength and balance to respond to whatever those backcountry slopes through at you.


I agree wholeheartedly, I embrace "saturation". Came a long way this season, actually started to understand and apply some of what I have been reading while I'm out playing, but still not super confident....

Thanks
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12gaugesage
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Re: Kom or Excursion 88 good all around BC ski's?

Postby 12gaugesage » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:22 pm

fisheater wrote:Mr. Sage. where did you get those E-78's? That is a better price than I can find online. and I have not seen any left at 189 cm.
I am tying to avoid GAS (gear acquisition syndrome), but hanging out here avoiding GAS is like trying to avoid gambling in a casino.
Funny thing, I had a buddy get married in Vegas. I didn't gamble at all. I spent all the non-wedding time skiing!


Got the T78's locally at Gorham bike and ski, Jackson store. Everyone around here is liquidating their inventory to make room for summer, good time to buy.

Yeah man, I hear ya, I am a gear addict myself!!! Yes you can buy happiness, I dont care what any one says.
Funny too, I've always wanted to visit Las Vegas, but have no desire to gamble. Catch a fight, do some hiking, biking or skiing. Its on the list.
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