which ski climbs best

This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
Post Reply
User avatar
eric
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:23 pm

which ski climbs best

Post by eric » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:28 pm

i have a pair rossignol bc 110 and my wife uses the voile vector bc. we ski them on rolling tours to avoid constantly dealing with skins. i noticed that quite often, while she is shuffling straight up, i have to resort to the herring bone. i think it's due to the fact that the voile are softer, less cambered (barely at all in fact) and wider than the rossignols, which creates better contact/friction when she pushes off. to the risk of sounding presumptuous, i'm pretty sure it's not due to form/technique. so i'm shopping around for a new pair waxless bc/dh skis. lookin at madshus annum, fisher s bound 112, altai kom. does anyone knows which climbs best. in case it makes a difference, i use chilis and excursions and she uses silvretta 500 with either light weigh AT's or ice climbing boots. and if you know of other models go ahead, but i'm very attached to the 110/80/95 profile or thereabout as we never do tracks or groomed and are often off trail
thanks

User avatar
Lo-Fi
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:34 pm

Re: which ski climbs best

Post by Lo-Fi » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:02 am

I find my 162cm Koms climb noticeably better than my 175cm guide/annums.



User avatar
lowangle al
Posts: 2731
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:36 pm
Location: Pocono Mts / Chugach Mts
Ski style: BC with focus on downhill perfection
Favorite Skis: powder skis
Favorite boots: Scarpa T4
Occupation: Retired cement mason. Current job is to take my recreation as serious as I did my past employment.

Re: which ski climbs best

Post by lowangle al » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:17 pm

Welcome Eric. I can understand wanting to stay with a narrower ski, but if you are considering the Kom why not consider the vector? It does cost more, but over the life of the ski the extra $ doesn't look so bad.



User avatar
STG
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:16 pm

Re: which ski climbs best

Post by STG » Mon May 01, 2017 11:15 am

eric:

Save your money-keep your skis. Just skin at a lower, less steep angle: requires less energy and is less stressful on your achilles tendon, calf muscle and lower back.



User avatar
Nick BC
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:04 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC
Ski style: Free heel Resort/Backcountry
Favorite Skis: Voile Vector BC,Trab Altavia and Hagan Ride 75
Favorite boots: Scarpa TX and T3
Occupation: Retired Community Planner

Re: which ski climbs best

Post by Nick BC » Mon May 01, 2017 11:40 pm

I would agree with Al. I have both skis and I find the BC110 is less grippy than the Vector BC. If you want to make life easy for yourself I would say go with a Vector. The uphills will be easier and the downhills more fun.



User avatar
connyro
needs to take stock of his life
needs to take stock of his life
Posts: 1233
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:46 am

Re: which ski climbs best

Post by connyro » Tue May 02, 2017 12:17 am

The Koms climb on par with the Vectors. Much better than the Rossis and the Annums IMO.



User avatar
fisheater
Posts: 2509
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:06 pm
Location: Oakland County, MI
Ski style: All my own, and age doesn't help
Favorite Skis: Gamme 54, Falketind 62, I hope to add a third soon
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska, Alico Ski March
Occupation: Construction Manager

Re: which ski climbs best

Post by fisheater » Tue May 02, 2017 10:31 pm

Eric,
I have a question for you. Is it only the profile of the Vector that does not suit you? The Objective has pretty much the profile you desire, but I believe the camber more closely matches the Vector, than a s-112 or bc-110.
I do know that my s-112 can be a bit squirrelly when touring on hardpack. Less sidecut is a quality that has me looking at a Vector. Although I question how a Vector might tour on hardpack, if I was touring for turns.
Looking forward to hearing how you decide to proceed.
Bob



User avatar
eric
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:23 pm

Re: which ski climbs best

Post by eric » Wed May 03, 2017 3:57 pm

thank for all the input everybody. my wife and i did some ski print tests in fresh snow, i.e. standing on one ski and lifting out without making a forward track. her print clearly showed more pressure in the center with the tail slightly but visibly lifting up, the twin tip might actually help a bit in that regard. my print was almost flat. and i'm 20lbs heavier.
zig zagging is never a bad option but last time we went up niwot ridge she travelled half the distance i did and waited a lot as yet again, she was going straight up and i was crossing back and forth, far and wide. niwot ridge is really not that steep. so i'm starting to save up for a pair of vectors i think (or maybe the kom...), i don't mind a little wider.
meanwhile, i'm gonna slap some permanent short kick skins on the rossignols.
thanks again and i do welcome more opinions if there are any



User avatar
lilcliffy
Posts: 4112
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: backcountry Nordic ski touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad, Combat Nato, Amundsen, Rabb 68; Altai Kom
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska BC; Lundhags Expedition; Alfa Skaget XP; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: which ski climbs best

Post by lilcliffy » Tue May 09, 2017 1:37 pm

IMHO- these two skis are VERY different in intent, design, and performance. I have tried the Vector and the BC-110 a number of times.

The BC-110 is a Nordic touring ski with enough camber and stiffness to offer reasonable true kick and glide performance. The width, flex and sidecut of the BC-110 are obviously intended to offer moderate downhill performance as well.

The Vector BC is a backcountry Alpine ski- with a flex pattern intended for skiing downhill off-piste.

Those two very different flex patterns also GREATLY affect climbing performance.

When climbing anything significantly steep one must be able to have grip as you transfer weight to the lead ski. A ski that is stiff enough to offer true K&G performance is VERY difficult to climb with because the flex underfoot is designed to disengage with the snow during the glide phase. This advantage when XC skiing turns into a disadvantage when climbing. I would suggest that the worst climbing skis are stiff, truly double cambered skis with a waxless-scaled base (waxable double-cambered skis climb much better because one can adjust the grip wax for better climbing grip).

The softer, lower profile single camber underfoot of the Vector allows for more effective grip. The flipside is that that flex pattern is a SERIOUS drag when XC skiing on snow with a dense and/or consolidated base. (The interesting thing is that if you are XC skiing in bottomless, deep, unconsolidated powder, the Nordic camber underfoot won't be effective. MANY skiers report excellent XC performance from a ski like the Vector in deep unconsolidated powder).

The waxless design also plays a role as well. The scales on the Vector are wider, longer and further forward than the BC-110- all of this increases climbing traction.
Last edited by lilcliffy on Mon May 15, 2017 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



User avatar
lilcliffy
Posts: 4112
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: backcountry Nordic ski touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad, Combat Nato, Amundsen, Rabb 68; Altai Kom
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska BC; Lundhags Expedition; Alfa Skaget XP; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: which ski climbs best

Post by lilcliffy » Tue May 09, 2017 1:55 pm

Having skis that perform VERY differently can be real pain when skiing with others- this may be the biggest factor you are dealing with.

I have friends out west that will deliberately use skins and a non-scaled base AT ski when touring with others with the same setup- even with long, low-angle approaches (even when they would prefer to use their scaled Vector BC). They claim that the low-angle XC glide is not a deal-breaker between the skins and scales- the deal-breaker is the time taken up in the skin on/off transitions and downhill speed.

It sucks to always be waiting for each other at any end of the spectrum.

I have no doubt that your wife's Vectors outclimb your BC-110- but I would suggest that there are many other contexts where your BC-110s would cause you to patiently wait for her to catch up...

As an example at the other end of the backcountry spectrum:

I love a true double-cambered waxable backcountry Nordic touring ski for a distance-oriented tour- even in quite hilly/mountainous terrain. My current favorite is the E-99- I find it quite manageable downhill- and it absolutely smokes as a BC-XC ski. My wife is from a very strong Alpine background and always prefers a softer, less cambered ski when there are any serious downhill turns to be made- regardless of the distance- she will always choose her Eons or the E-109. If I am going out with her I will give up the speed of the E-99 and use my E-109 or Combat Nato so that our rate of travel is more compatible. When it is just me though- I can travel near twice as fast with the E-99. And yes- the same physics hold true in this comparison- the E-109/Eon climb more effectively than the E-99.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



Post Reply