Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

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Young Satchel

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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Postby Young Satchel » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:07 am

lilcliffy wrote:Satch- Hopefully, we are helping you!

I may well have misinterpreted your OP- assuming that you were- at this point- primarily interested in traditional "Nordic touring" (i.e. XCd) in the backcountry.

If your primary interest is in developing Nordic-downhill skills and- in particular- learning the telemark turn, then perhaps you should focus on that?

Don't get me wrong- one can certainly develop Nordic-downhill skills while on distance tours in hilly/mountainous terrain. But- and I am certain many agree- if you are new to Nordic skiing- and you want to "shred" downhill- then your learning curve will be faster if you spend some concentrated time focusing on downhill skiing and turning skills.

(If to shred is your bag- you may actually want to start a new thread that focuses on that...)
)


Not at ALL.

You completely accurately represented my intentions and they have not changed at all. I think for my purposes here, your focus and recs have been pretty dead-on.

Lowangle Al is--I believe--simply observing how excited I get by videos of shredders on wide skis (XCD GT, S98) and concluding that that's what I want and need to be doing. Totally a valid conclusion to draw, but I think it misses the points made in my OP here earlier in this thread to some degree.

I'll let you two argue about boot and binding systems since I know nothing in that regard and I will just try and glean what I can from the evolving discussion.

You've ALL been super helpful!



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lowangle al

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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Postby lowangle al » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:27 am

"I disagree that 75mm bindings create a closer more responsive connection between boot/foot and ski- There is VERY little play between a NNN/SNS binding and boot. The 75mm-NN platform allows one to wear a much more rigid boot- also requiring and allowing stronger and more active bindings. The increased support, stability, and control of a boot like the plastic T4- compared to a soft XC boot, like the leather Alaska/Antarctic- comes from its rigidness."


Its not the binding that creates that more solid connection but the boot. There is no slop between the upper and the sole of plastic boots.

I don't differentiate between XCD and Telemark, it's all the same to me. This is because I wear all of my different weight gear skiing in the same places and doing the same thing, touring for turns. I choose my gear based on snow conditions. The only time it becomes something different is in avy terrain because that requires additional gear and knowledge.

Just like you can do turns on the lightest gear you can also kick and glide with the heaviest gear. I find the T4 to be a good compromise to do both.

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connyro

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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Postby connyro » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:29 am

The Lovely Bear wrote:Image

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Image

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After scanning this thread, I must agree with lovely bear's post. I'm not particularly happy about agreeing with the bear, but the 88s, Alaskas, and nnn-bc bindings, IMO, is what you are looking for.

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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Postby Young Satchel » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:42 am

connyro wrote:
The Lovely Bear wrote:Image

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Image

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Image


After scanning this thread, I must agree with lovely bear's post. I'm not particularly happy about agreeing with the bear, but the 88s, Alaskas, and nnn-bc bindings, IMO, is what you are looking for.


I agree; The bear is Pretty much dead-on.

Barring some wild and surprising 11th-hour revelation, I'll quite likely be packaging up some Fischer 78s or 88s with a soft boot and NNNBC Magnums and putting them to work as soon as the white stuff hits.


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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Postby Cannatonic » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:10 pm

excellent talk on the difference between nordic, tele, etc. LC! It's difficult when you don't live in a mountain town and you can't just see what your friends are doing & borrow stuff. I'll never forget the time I showed up at the Mt. Washington cog railway with 210cm fishscale double-camber XC skis and tried to begin climbing the Cog railway. I figured I'd give it try, see how far I could go. Turns out I went for about 20 seconds! THAT's not going to work. It's pretty much the steepest possible skin track you can do on the widest, stickiest full climbing skins. So I just found some trails better-suited to my skis that day.

But trying stuff helps you figure it out. If you order boots I'd make sure you can return them. I tried T4's and Excursions on my feet and immediately realized I'll never ski them. WAY too heavy in size 13 for what I want with my current arthritis situation. I like the free feeling I get from traveling the woods with light gear. The leather boots I use (3-pin Antarctic and Andrews Zenith) feel like comfortable slippers. You can step out of the bindings and walk and it feels like regular hiking boots. I wear my stiff K2 Clicker snowboard boots for sitting on the lift or climbing in snowshoes. If you want to be able to crank hard turns down the steeps with total control you'll need the heavier boots.

Boots are a nightmare for my oddly-shaped feet. I can't even get the straps and closures on Fischer NNNBC boots to close around my foot! So I have to use the Italian welted leather boots.

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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Postby lilcliffy » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:25 pm

Very important perspective Cannatonic!

Your early piece of advice still stands soundly- find the boot first- then the binding.

Having poorly fitting boots is not only miserable- and of course, can lead to long-term injury- it can also be downright dangerous in the backcountry.

Full leather boots with welted soles are the bomb for getting the best custom fit- and from my perspective, they are most definitely the most durable way to construct a leather 75mm-NN boot.
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

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lowangle al

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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Postby lowangle al » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:55 pm

Young Satchel wrote:
connyro wrote:
The Lovely Bear wrote:Image

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Image

=

Image


After scanning this thread, I must agree with lovely bear's post. I'm not particularly happy about agreeing with the bear, but the 88s, Alaskas, and nnn-bc bindings, IMO, is what you are looking for.


I agree; The bear is Pretty much dead-on.

Barring some wild and surprising 11th-hour revelation, I'll quite likely be packaging up some Fischer 78s or 88s with a soft boot and NNNBC Magnums and putting them to work as soon as the white stuff hits.


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Probably a good choice YS and you can shread on those too. A couple inches of fresh on a packed base and that set up could be fantastic. All you need is snow and to learn to ski. I think we'll be hearing back from you and I look forward seeing how you progress.

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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Postby rongon » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:39 pm

cannatonic wrote:Boots are a nightmare for my oddly-shaped feet. I can't even get the straps and closures on Fischer NNNBC boots to close around my foot! So I have to use the Italian welted leather boots.


You are not alone. I'm sure I have felt your pain. Either that, or I feel pain that is pretty similar.

My solution has been to choose the plastic boot that comes closest to not being an instrument of torture and then have them painstakingly fitted by pro bootfitters. For me that has been Crispi CXT (2-buckle) and CXP (3-buckle), with after-market liners (the Crispi liners are too stiff and take up too much room).

For leather boots I have to size up, and they have to be real, actual leather. If they're this synthetic stuff Fischer's using, they don't stretch where I need them to. I have a pair of vintage Asolo Extremes that are bearable, but not as comfortable as I'd like, and they're not very warm. They do ski well. I had a pair of Karhu Descents that I absolutely loved, but the soles kept coming off the uppers. That's kind of terminal. Maybe I need to try a pair of Crispi's leather boots.

Anyhow, I tried on those Alpina Alaska boots and found that it's not as burly as it looks. By which I mean that no-one should be intimidated by its looks -- it's not all that stiff, rigid or heavy. It would make a really good long-distance boot for routes that have some tough spots. For out-and-out touring-for-turns I've gone with plastic boots, bigger skis, and free-pivot bindings.

So the bear is right to be happy!
--

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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Postby Grampatele » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:50 am

Except for the nnn part (pins are better..imo)...most of the rest will work....Skis just get them long enough....Leather is and always has been more comfortable....Tweaked my Achilles so might play some golf in my leathers today!!! TM


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