Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

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Young Satchel
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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Post by Young Satchel » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:07 am

lilcliffy wrote:Satch- Hopefully, we are helping you!

I may well have misinterpreted your OP- assuming that you were- at this point- primarily interested in traditional "Nordic touring" (i.e. XCd) in the backcountry.

If your primary interest is in developing Nordic-downhill skills and- in particular- learning the telemark turn, then perhaps you should focus on that?

Don't get me wrong- one can certainly develop Nordic-downhill skills while on distance tours in hilly/mountainous terrain. But- and I am certain many agree- if you are new to Nordic skiing- and you want to "shred" downhill- then your learning curve will be faster if you spend some concentrated time focusing on downhill skiing and turning skills.

(If to shred is your bag- you may actually want to start a new thread that focuses on that...)
)
Not at ALL.

You completely accurately represented my intentions and they have not changed at all. I think for my purposes here, your focus and recs have been pretty dead-on.

Lowangle Al is--I believe--simply observing how excited I get by videos of shredders on wide skis (XCD GT, S98) and concluding that that's what I want and need to be doing. Totally a valid conclusion to draw, but I think it misses the points made in my OP here earlier in this thread to some degree.

I'll let you two argue about boot and binding systems since I know nothing in that regard and I will just try and glean what I can from the evolving discussion.

You've ALL been super helpful!



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lowangle al
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Location: Pocono Mts / Chugach Mts
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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Post by lowangle al » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:27 am

"I disagree that 75mm bindings create a closer more responsive connection between boot/foot and ski- There is VERY little play between a NNN/SNS binding and boot. The 75mm-NN platform allows one to wear a much more rigid boot- also requiring and allowing stronger and more active bindings. The increased support, stability, and control of a boot like the plastic T4- compared to a soft XC boot, like the leather Alaska/Antarctic- comes from its rigidness."


Its not the binding that creates that more solid connection but the boot. There is no slop between the upper and the sole of plastic boots.

I don't differentiate between XCD and Telemark, it's all the same to me. This is because I wear all of my different weight gear skiing in the same places and doing the same thing, touring for turns. I choose my gear based on snow conditions. The only time it becomes something different is in avy terrain because that requires additional gear and knowledge.

Just like you can do turns on the lightest gear you can also kick and glide with the heaviest gear. I find the T4 to be a good compromise to do both.



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connyro
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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Post by connyro » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:29 am

The Lovely Bear wrote:Image

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Image

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After scanning this thread, I must agree with lovely bear's post. I'm not particularly happy about agreeing with the bear, but the 88s, Alaskas, and nnn-bc bindings, IMO, is what you are looking for.



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Young Satchel
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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Post by Young Satchel » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:42 am

connyro wrote:
The Lovely Bear wrote:Image

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Image

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Image
After scanning this thread, I must agree with lovely bear's post. I'm not particularly happy about agreeing with the bear, but the 88s, Alaskas, and nnn-bc bindings, IMO, is what you are looking for.
I agree; The bear is Pretty much dead-on.

Barring some wild and surprising 11th-hour revelation, I'll quite likely be packaging up some Fischer 78s or 88s with a soft boot and NNNBC Magnums and putting them to work as soon as the white stuff hits.


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Cannatonic
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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Post by Cannatonic » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:10 pm

excellent talk on the difference between nordic, tele, etc. LC! It's difficult when you don't live in a mountain town and you can't just see what your friends are doing & borrow stuff. I'll never forget the time I showed up at the Mt. Washington cog railway with 210cm fishscale double-camber XC skis and tried to begin climbing the Cog railway. I figured I'd give it try, see how far I could go. Turns out I went for about 20 seconds! THAT's not going to work. It's pretty much the steepest possible skin track you can do on the widest, stickiest full climbing skins. So I just found some trails better-suited to my skis that day.

But trying stuff helps you figure it out. If you order boots I'd make sure you can return them. I tried T4's and Excursions on my feet and immediately realized I'll never ski them. WAY too heavy in size 13 for what I want with my current arthritis situation. I like the free feeling I get from traveling the woods with light gear. The leather boots I use (3-pin Antarctic and Andrews Zenith) feel like comfortable slippers. You can step out of the bindings and walk and it feels like regular hiking boots. I wear my stiff K2 Clicker snowboard boots for sitting on the lift or climbing in snowshoes. If you want to be able to crank hard turns down the steeps with total control you'll need the heavier boots.

Boots are a nightmare for my oddly-shaped feet. I can't even get the straps and closures on Fischer NNNBC boots to close around my foot! So I have to use the Italian welted leather boots.
"All wisdom is to be gained through suffering"
-Will Lange (quoting Inuit chieftan)



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lilcliffy
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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Post by lilcliffy » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:25 pm

Very important perspective Cannatonic!

Your early piece of advice still stands soundly- find the boot first- then the binding.

Having poorly fitting boots is not only miserable- and of course, can lead to long-term injury- it can also be downright dangerous in the backcountry.

Full leather boots with welted soles are the bomb for getting the best custom fit- and from my perspective, they are most definitely the most durable way to construct a leather 75mm-NN boot.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



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lowangle al
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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Post by lowangle al » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:55 pm

Young Satchel wrote:
connyro wrote:
The Lovely Bear wrote:Image

+

Image

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Image
After scanning this thread, I must agree with lovely bear's post. I'm not particularly happy about agreeing with the bear, but the 88s, Alaskas, and nnn-bc bindings, IMO, is what you are looking for.
I agree; The bear is Pretty much dead-on.

Barring some wild and surprising 11th-hour revelation, I'll quite likely be packaging up some Fischer 78s or 88s with a soft boot and NNNBC Magnums and putting them to work as soon as the white stuff hits.


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Probably a good choice YS and you can shread on those too. A couple inches of fresh on a packed base and that set up could be fantastic. All you need is snow and to learn to ski. I think we'll be hearing back from you and I look forward seeing how you progress.



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rongon
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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Post by rongon » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:39 pm

cannatonic wrote:Boots are a nightmare for my oddly-shaped feet. I can't even get the straps and closures on Fischer NNNBC boots to close around my foot! So I have to use the Italian welted leather boots.
You are not alone. I'm sure I have felt your pain. Either that, or I feel pain that is pretty similar.

My solution has been to choose the plastic boot that comes closest to not being an instrument of torture and then have them painstakingly fitted by pro bootfitters. For me that has been Crispi CXT (2-buckle) and CXP (3-buckle), with after-market liners (the Crispi liners are too stiff and take up too much room).

For leather boots I have to size up, and they have to be real, actual leather. If they're this synthetic stuff Fischer's using, they don't stretch where I need them to. I have a pair of vintage Asolo Extremes that are bearable, but not as comfortable as I'd like, and they're not very warm. They do ski well. I had a pair of Karhu Descents that I absolutely loved, but the soles kept coming off the uppers. That's kind of terminal. Maybe I need to try a pair of Crispi's leather boots.

Anyhow, I tried on those Alpina Alaska boots and found that it's not as burly as it looks. By which I mean that no-one should be intimidated by its looks -- it's not all that stiff, rigid or heavy. It would make a really good long-distance boot for routes that have some tough spots. For out-and-out touring-for-turns I've gone with plastic boots, bigger skis, and free-pivot bindings.

So the bear is right to be happy!
--



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Grampatele
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Re: Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Post by Grampatele » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:50 am

Except for the nnn part (pins are better..imo)...most of the rest will work....Skis just get them long enough....Leather is and always has been more comfortable....Tweaked my Achilles so might play some golf in my leathers today!!! TM



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Young Satchel
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Help A Northeastern Trail Runner & Backpacker Build His First Nordic Backcountry Set-Up!

Post by Young Satchel » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:23 pm

Well........

Bahahahahahaha.....

So friends....After we last spoke in late summer/early Fall, as you may well recall, I was brimming with excitement and eagerly picking the collective hive mind here in search of my first Nordic BC setup. Then.....I disappeared :-/

So what happened? The Cliffnotes are as follows: I’m sole breadwinner for a family of 4 with two toddlers one of whom has a rare genetic disease and is blind & autistic. If that weren’t enough, my wife has been battling a chronic illness since shortly after the birth of our 2nd leaving me with much of the life-admin and mental load as well. It’s a fucking handful to say the least. In early Fall, my life & work circumstances changed significantly adding to an already very heavy load and rendering me with nearly zero “free time”

At this point I decided that the idea of me EVER having any time to take on a new active pursuit was a total Dad-pipe-dream; a sick joke that would only serve to cause me pain later as I stared at a pair of skis gathering dust in the basement as the snow fell and the unceasing demands of life overwhelmed me.

So basically I just fucking shelved it. I still followed the forum and read most of the threads but no longer attempted to participate as I had pretty much consigned myself to the scrap heap of depressed dads with big dreams [emoji23][emoji24]

Then I had a rare free day with my folks watching the boys yesterday so I headed down to my favorite independent outdoor retailer to check out their used gear annex and try and score a pair of soft shell pants or bibs. Wasn’t even trying to look at skis but was excited that I might encounter some. I succeeded with the pants (Rab Spire, which seem really promising) and in the process, what should I stumble upon but the Fischer 78s we’ve talked 6-Ways to Sunday in this thread casually leaning against the wall with a handful of
Other skis. FUCK. [emoji16]

I was in a hurry, but not to much of a hurry to lovingly oggle them and handle them a bit, AND to notice they had a “30% off” tag on them significantly reducing their price. As I drove through the Catskill mountains this afternoon on snow covered forest service roads with my two boys sleeping in the back, I could not stop thinking about the stupid fucking skis. Damnnit.

So tomorrow I will call the shop and inquire as to whether they have my size (189s IIRC?) and if they do, and have an NNN-BC Manual they are willing to slap on them for me, I will buy them then and there on the phone to be picked up the following weekend. Failing that. I’ve spied some 88s at Gear Exchange in Burlington as well as some closest 2015 Madshus options at The Mountaineer in NH (thanks to y’all) to consider as backups. Basically the same handful of options y’all batted around with me several months back.

Maybe I will ski twice this season? Maybe “skiing” will be creeping out to the shallow slope near the local school under cover of night after the kids are down to make a fool of myself? Maybe skiing will be a half-hour jaunt as my local running trail between daycare drop-off and work? But it will be skiing, and that my friends, is probably better than no skiing, amirite?

The gang here was too helpful for me to just fade gracefully into the night so I thought I’d drop back by with this update, and once gain offer my thanks for the sage advice and guidance you gents have dispensed in my direction.

Hopefully within a couple weeks I’ll be off the bench and in the fucking game. Will report back soon following....

Happy New Year.


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