What ski/binding combo for Scarpa Fabiano?

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lilcliffy
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Re: What ski/binding combo for Scarpa Fabiano?

Postby lilcliffy » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:35 pm

I certainly was not trying to suggest that every single-cambered ski has the same flex pattern- any more than my double-cambered track skis have the same flex pattern as my E99s.

And I am certainly not claiming to be an expert on these skis- just trying to have a conversation.

TeleBeaver- can you get a chance to actually try out any of these skis?
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

TeleBeaver
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Re: What ski/binding combo for Scarpa Fabiano?

Postby TeleBeaver » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:47 pm

lilcliffy wrote: Well- every Excursion 88/S-Bound 88 I have ever squeezed or squashed was single-cambered. The current 88 has more tip rocker than the 98- at least by my estimation in the shop (I have not tested the current 88&98-tested the previous models extensively). Woodserson's experience with the current 88/98 testifies to this- suggesting that the current 88 is actually easier to turn- despite the 98 having more sidecut. What I can personally say is that in my opinion, the 88 is a better tracking XC ski. They are both the same width underfoot- I doubt the 98 offers any greater effective float. I think that the dimensions of the 88 are about perfect for a midwidth XCD ski (I actually wish the Eon/E109/Ingstad were a little wider underfoot...)- the only reason I don't currently own one is they don't make an 88 over 200cm.


Thanks again for the responses. I think at this point i am leaning towards tbe excursion 88s. Seems like they will be similar on the down to the s98 while being better on the flat. 189 is in the ballpark (170ish lbs) although I was thinking around 195. You guys have me thinking about wax now too... For my use however I don't think I should be too picky, this setup will be a trial run in the world of xcd and i will better know what my wants and needs are once I ski the darn things. :D so as of right now I think 189 e88s w/ cables are going to be the ticket. You guys are more than helpful and i cant wait to get out and post some stoke for you all!

TeleBeaver
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Re: What ski/binding combo for Scarpa Fabiano?

Postby TeleBeaver » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:49 pm

lilcliffy wrote:
TeleBeaver- can you get a chance to actually try out any of these skis?

Unfortunatley no, the company i work for doesnt carry them, and i will be ordering direct from fischer. As I said in my post above I think i have what i want roughly nailed down, and barring any sweet craigslist deals on a similar ski I will most likely be getting those e88s.

Are there any skis in the same class as the e88s that you guys would recommend? I know they are all different but ski recomendations that strike the same balance between XC and D are welcomed, if only to gice me more options to find a good deal.

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lilcliffy
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Re: What ski/binding combo for Scarpa Fabiano?

Postby lilcliffy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:03 am

TeleBeaver wrote:Are there any skis in the same class as the e88s that you guys would recommend? I know they are all different but ski recomendations that strike the same balance between XC and D are welcomed, if only to give me more options to find a good deal.


I personally feel that at the moment the 88 is a little unique in a BC-XC ski because of its lack of "extreme" sidecut (I say "extreme" from a XC perspective, not a downhill perspective)- and it has a full 68mm underfoot. All the other similar-width BC-XC skis currently have a lot more sidecut- Eon/Ingstad/Nansen/E109/BC90.

I can personally testify to the fact that the current E109 is a serious disappointment in truly deep soft snow. The combination of very narrow waist and extremely soft rockered tip just doesn't work in deep soft snow.

The Eon is an excellent XCD ski- with a wonderful downhill flex and reasonable XC performance. The Omintrack waxless scales on the Eon are great on warm wet snow, but have inadequate traction otherwise.

In this class of ski, my experience is that Fischer's Offtrack Crown is currently the best BC waxless scale design.

Never skied the current BC90.

My current top pick in this class is the Asnes Combat Nato/Ingstad (previous gen).

BUT- I don't own a Fischer 88 so I can't compare!

Wow- there is a growing number of XCDers wanting that 88...

A good source of info on the current 88/98/112 is Woodserson- he has all three of the current models!
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

Grampatele
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Re: What ski/binding combo for Scarpa Fabiano?

Postby Grampatele » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:53 am

Telebeaver...Lc is trying in a very complimentary way....to steer you in the direction the HISTORIC fabiano boot will handle....Bag the 88 which can be easily skied with leathers of any stripe...Put your hands over your eyes...ears...and without much thought go for the e99 or 109...You won't regret it and the Fabiano's will thank you for it....Get over the idea that double camber is a negative....It's an advantage in the bush....and gives the ski energy....Pop down on that camber and the skis will lift off....big time....Not easy but something that is bred into the Fabs...er....sorta.....Free the heel free the mind sorta thing....You want thrills....challenge....no cable....skinnys!......flexing leathers and Rotta Super Telemark....It's a blast but there is a big learning curve....Lots of the other stuff on this thread is a lighter version of Alpine....E99's and E 109's are real cc skis and can be skied ANYWHERE! TM

Cannatonic
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Re: What ski/binding combo for Scarpa Fabiano?

Postby Cannatonic » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:15 pm

FWIW, I tried the Voile 3-pin with cable and found I didn't like using the cable, so I switched to Rottefella Super Tele. It's slightly lighter, and the clamp is easier to work with your pole or fingers in the cold.

I tried the cable several times. I wear size 13 boots and it seemed like too much length for the cable to be effective, they were always bending and coming off during downhills. Removing them for climbs & putting them back on at the top was a pain in the ass, I wasn't feeling much benefit on the downhill. Just my opinion of course, others find them more useful.

I didn't get Hardwire because I read that cartridge bindings put too much force on the Vibram sole in leather boots. Although some of the stiffer ones like Alico Double can probably take the force.

I also really like skis like the E99 or E109 dimensions for lightweight touring. I like skis with tip width of 80's or below, my widest ski on leathers is 84mm at the tip. Spring corn season goes for months and it's super easy to climb and tour on skinnies like an E99 ski. The Fischer Sbound 88's or whatever they're called would be really versatile for some mellow tours out there, the scales are perfect for spring corn climbing and skiing.

I used these skis and eventually gravitated towards Asnes ski because waxing is even better than scales IMO. Waxing skis work better on cold, dry snow. A wax 205 ski will pretty much fly along compare to heavier, scaled skis. Unfortunately Asnes is only sold at one place in Boulder, CO or by mail order. If you hit Craislist in Utah this fall you'll probably see some very cheap 3-pin ski setups being sold on there, great way to test out the various skis and have a pair for rock skiing.

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lilcliffy
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Re: What ski/binding combo for Scarpa Fabiano?

Postby lilcliffy » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:01 am

The E99 or E109 are certainly options- I didn's suggest them because you were pretty clear that you were not interested in a double-camber ski.

Though both of this skis are double camber underfoot (the E109 fits the description of camber-and-a-half with its low profile second camber)- the flex pattern of both of these skis is tuned for soft backcountry snow.

Theoretically, the E109 should be an ideal distance-oriented BC-XCD ski for deep soft snow and mountainous terrain (i.e. same intent as Asnes' Ingstad)- BUT, I find the E109's combination of very narrow waist and very soft rockered tip to be a real liability in truly deep soft snow. The E109 is a dream in up to 12inches of fresh snow on top of a dense base.

The E99 Tour (waxable) is actually the better ski between the two- more stable in deep snow, faster XC ski, and a 210cm E99 offers just as much flotation as a 205cm E109 in my experience.

The E99 Crown is very limited from my perspective- without a kicker skin. The combination of double camber and waxless scales offers a miserable slippery experience on everything except ideal warm wet snow and gentle terrain.
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

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Woodserson
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Re: What ski/binding combo for Scarpa Fabiano?

Postby Woodserson » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:41 pm

lilcliffy wrote: Woodserson's experience with the current 88/98 testifies to this- suggesting that the current 88 is actually easier to turn- despite the 98 having more sidecut. What I can personally say is that in my opinion, the 88 is a better tracking XC ski.


Just to be very clear about this, my 189cm 88's turn better than my 189cm 98's but I am well below Fischer's recommended weight for the 189cm ski in either of them. The 88's (the Excursion version) do have more rocker than my 98's-- I don't know why or if this is normal. My 179cm Boundless (basically a wax 98) which I am in the weight range for are smooth and awesome. So awesome in fact, I now have a pair of 179cm 98's, which still need to be skied. They are softer than the 189's and have proportionally about the same rocker as the 88's and I am expecting them to be amazing.

My friend who is in the weight range of the 189cm S98 has said that they are "the best XCD ski ever" though he has a more limited range of skis he's tried, but he loves them. He will now be the primary user of these skis.

The 88's are still in my quiver for days where I am putting down some miles and may encounter some hills. If I'm going somewhere specifically for XCD turns in older snow or dust-on-crust conditions, yo-yo-ing a few hundred vert feet I imagine it will be the 179cm 98's.

All of the above is based on Crispi Antarctic leathers. I imagine I could power the longer 98's much better with my T4s.

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lowangle al
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Re: What ski/binding combo for Scarpa Fabiano?

Postby lowangle al » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:05 am

As far as bindings go you can't go wrong with a Riva cable binding. I've used them with leather boots and 4 buckle plastic boots and on every type of terrain from mild tours to the steep and deep. They don't makethem anymore so if you see a pair used grab em. There was a pair for sale on teleturn around, they may still be available.

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lilcliffy
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Re: What ski/binding combo for Scarpa Fabiano?

Postby lilcliffy » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:46 am

Woodserson wrote:Just to be very clear about this, my 189cm 88's turn better than my 189cm 98's but I am well below Fischer's recommended weight for the 189cm ski in either of them.

This is very useful information. It also brings confidence to Fischer's weight recommendations. I think for many of us- myself included- we habitually think of all Nordic skis from a traditional perspective in terms of length. 179cm is a very short Nordic ski from a traditional perspective. Sounds like it is best to follow Fischer's design-based recommendations if one wants to fully take advantage of the downhill performance they have to offer!

The 88's (the Excursion version) do have more rocker than my 98's-- I don't know why or if this is normal.

Perhaps it is simply an anomaly? However, strangely enough, my 2016 E99s also have more open tips than my 2016 E109s...

My 179cm Boundless (basically a wax 98) which I am in the weight range for are smooth and awesome. So awesome in fact, I now have a pair of 179cm 98's, which still need to be skied. They are softer than the 189's and have proportionally about the same rocker as the 88's and I am expecting them to be amazing.

My friend who is in the weight range of the 189cm S98 has said that they are "the best XCD ski ever" though he has a more limited range of skis he's tried, but he loves them. He will now be the primary user of these skis.

Again- very useful information.

All of the above is based on Crispi Antarctic leathers. I imagine I could power the longer 98's much better with my T4s.

Good note here as well.
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry


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