Does baking/molding liners make them pack out faster?

This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
teleclub

Rank: XCD Pinhead
XCD Pinhead
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:49 pm
Location: Wasatch

Does baking/molding liners make them pack out faster?

Postby teleclub » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:17 pm

Not that it wouldn't still be worth it for fit, even if baking/molding does make liners pack out faster.

I've run into this claim a couple places, that the molding/baking process, even if done exactly right, makes the liners breakdown faster and they pack out faster.

It was my experience that the old first gen Raichle liners packed out sooner than expected. The new Intuition Speed Pro G are different construction and technology.
Maybe if it was true once, it's not relevant now?
Maybe it's just the result of someone trying to expand the foam too much on a too-big shell/liner?
Maybe it's just a fact of life that molded liner foam will break down sooner than virgin foam?

My new un-skied TXPros fit great out of the box, very snug everywhere but no pain spots.
Is there a reason I should mold them even if they fit well?

I've been doing some research on best methods to bake/mold the liners and learned I probably shouldn't use my usual oven-method on these new liners. The Hot rice protocol is the recommended home method now. Maybe I should find a local shop with boot stack-heaters.

User avatar
bgregoire

Rank: XCD Guide
XCD Guide
Posts: 610
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:31 am
Location: Rimouski, Québec

Re: Does baking/molding liners make them pack out faster?

Postby bgregoire » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:41 pm

What is wrong with the home oven technique when done right?

I understood Intuition recommends the rice method for home and i assumed that was because they did not want to take responsibility (or similar) for mistakes. My take is that the rice method is safe but close to placebo...far from a properly oven baked liner (in shop or at home). Miam!
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

teleclub

Rank: XCD Pinhead
XCD Pinhead
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:49 pm
Location: Wasatch

Re: Does baking/molding liners make them pack out faster?

Postby teleclub » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:06 pm

bgregoire wrote:What is wrong with the home oven technique when done right?

I understood Intuition recommends the rice method for home and i assumed that was because they did not want to take responsibility (or similar) for mistakes. My take is that the rice method is safe but close to placebo...far from a properly oven baked liner (in shop or at home). Miam!

I had the same question. What I learned was: 1) that the new Intuition liners like the Speed Pro G have different densities of foam glued together, denser foam next to the shell glued to less dense foam next to your foot. The old simple foam liners like Raichle and gen-one Intuition were less susceptible to damage in the oven if you got it slightly wrong--the new ones can have the glue degrade if the oven method goes slightly wrong and the layers delaminate. 2) The new liners have a molded nylon fabric shell on the outside covering the denser foam layer that inhibits heating them from the outside in. You have to overheat the outside foam layer and it's nylon cover in order to get the inside foam hot enough. 3) That a lot of the issues people had with baking liners was getting the floppy hot liners in the shell without creases and folds. When I saw the old liners done professionally by dealers they had you put your foot in the liner and then into the shell because the floppy hot liner wouldn't go in straight otherwise. And you needed someone who knows how it's supposed to fit to straighten it and check it once in, so beginners didn't fair as well. The rice method skips that part so the liner is already in the shell where it's supposed to be with no creases.

Harris

Rank: XCD Pinhead
XCD Pinhead
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:08 pm

Re: Does baking/molding liners make them pack out faster?

Postby Harris » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:30 pm

I'm with both previous replies. Intuition liners won't pack out. An issue I had with TX Pros that couldn't be fixed with baking was a poor heel fit. Mine seemed fine but required buckling too tight, which for a few first runs would tweak some nerves and severely cramp my calves. It became normal to leave my boots loose and swimming for a few runs before I could buckle snug. I finally broke down, swallowed some pride and took them to a real boot fitter and in minutes he had my liners perfect. He added some stick on padding to the outsides of the liners that really cupped my heel, and it was like magic. I hardly have to buckle at all now. I even use those same liners in my Garment Garas. I generally don't like to rely on others for expertise, but seeing a good boot fitter is well-worth the change.

phoenix

Rank: XCD Pinhead
XCD Pinhead
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:44 pm

Re: Does baking/molding liners make them pack out faster?

Postby phoenix » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:32 am

I've gone thru lots of foam liners, and my impression is that baking 'em does tend to lead to packing out faster. In recent years, I've been using the hot rice method, or just letting the liners get warmed up by the woodstove to tweak or freshen up the fit.
Whatever method you use, be sure not to overheat, and toe-caps are highly recommended.


Return to “Telemark Talk Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests