Help Me Choose: Burly Leather Boots vs. Soft Plastic Boots

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EvanTrem

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Re: Help Me Choose: Burly Leather Boots vs. Soft Plastic Boots

Postby EvanTrem » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:12 pm

So I should be receiving my boots in a few days and I was wondering about using Sno-Seal on them from the get go or should I wait until they need additional waterproofing? I have always just put a layer on all my leather boots and gloves at the beginning of each season but I was wondering if this is actually good practice or should I stay away from it if possible?

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Re: Help Me Choose: Burly Leather Boots vs. Soft Plastic Boots

Postby phoenix » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:05 pm

Just my opinion, but... I'd ski the boots a while as is. When the leather starts to show signs of wear, I'd use a natural based treatment. Beware of relying too much on the conditioners, or mink oil, as they will soften the leather. While a new leather boot will certainly feel stiff, in a few seasons they'll get pretty noodly. No need to hasten that, unless you have a troublesome fit in the upper somewhere.

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Re: Help Me Choose: Burly Leather Boots vs. Soft Plastic Boots

Postby Harris » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:01 am

If you have to ask then these. A remake of the old Merrill SuperComps.

http://andrewshoes.com/prodotti/en/telemark/174/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Andrew-Mountai ... 3093349001

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Re: Help Me Choose: Burly Leather Boots vs. Soft Plastic Boots

Postby Harris » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:21 am

Or if you can find a used pair, these are possibly the best flexing and comfortable 75mil plastics ever made. The boot Scarpa wish it could make.

https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDYwMA== ... Y/$_86.JPG

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Re: Help Me Choose: Burly Leather Boots vs. Soft Plastic Boots

Postby greatgt » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:59 am

The more the leather works toward soft flexible the better....Take what are they Asolo Extremes....They are injected with something for stiffness but where it counts its leather....And having that super flexible is great....Understand most people want it stiff but there are those who like the boot as an extension of their foot and shin becoming a loving soft friend that flexes with any movement initiated...Go Mink oil....ggt

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lowangle al

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Re: Help Me Choose: Burly Leather Boots vs. Soft Plastic Boots

Postby lowangle al » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:24 am

I never noticed the uppers softening to the point of affecting performance and I"ve been using snow seal. I have noticed an increase in performance after having the soles replaced though. Either way stiff or soft the still work.

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Re: Help Me Choose: Burly Leather Boots vs. Soft Plastic Boots

Postby Cannatonic » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:26 pm

I also like to keep the leather soft, the support is still there in the midsole and ankle where you need it. I use "Bearguard" with beeswax & actual bear fat. They don't get overly soft, you can see when it's time to apply more, the leather starts to get lighter in color & dry up, I've never had them get too soft. Maybe it's possible to over-do a pure oil product.

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Re: Help Me Choose: Burly Leather Boots vs. Soft Plastic Boots

Postby teleclub » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:53 pm

greatgt wrote:The more the leather works toward soft flexible the better....Take what are they Asolo Extremes....They are injected with something for stiffness but where it counts its leather....And having that super flexible is great....Understand most people want it stiff but there are those who like the boot as an extension of their foot and shin becoming a loving soft friend that flexes with any movement initiated...Go Mink oil....ggt

Problem is there are two kinds of boot stiffness one good, one bad. Stiffness that prevents sole torsion bending is good--at a certain ski width it gets hard to put a ski on edge with a boot whose sole torques when you lift the heel. At some point it doesn't matter how hard you big-toe-little-toe it.

I'm guessing people who favor stiffness in leather boots are trying to avoid a sole that can torque rather than preferring a boot that resists getting the ball of your foot down.

I know a lot of people liked plastic boots when they came out for the supportive height of the boot, but I liked the torsion free sole. I chose a green T2 over a T1 when I had the chance ('97) because I mainly liked that plastic boots could bend at the toe without torqueing even one degree. That T2 didn't bend as much at the toe as I would have liked, and certainly didn't bend like a good leather boot, but I guess I was hating boot-sole torque more than I was loving toe flex.

It's probably a trade-off we're all making one way or another.

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Re: Help Me Choose: Burly Leather Boots vs. Soft Plastic Boots

Postby Harris » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:11 am

teleclub wrote:
greatgt wrote:The more the leather works toward soft flexible the better....Take what are they Asolo Extremes....They are injected with something for stiffness but where it counts its leather....And having that super flexible is great....Understand most people want it stiff but there are those who like the boot as an extension of their foot and shin becoming a loving soft friend that flexes with any movement initiated...Go Mink oil....ggt

Problem is there are two kinds of boot stiffness one good, one bad. Stiffness that prevents sole torsion bending is good--at a certain ski width it gets hard to put a ski on edge with a boot whose sole torques when you lift the heel. At some point it doesn't matter how hard you big-toe-little-toe it.

I'm guessing people who favor stiffness in leather boots are trying to avoid a sole that can torque rather than preferring a boot that resists getting the ball of your foot down.

I know a lot of people liked plastic boots when they came out for the supportive height of the boot, but I liked the torsion free sole. I chose a green T2 over a T1 when I had the chance ('97) because I mainly liked that plastic boots could bend at the toe without torqueing even one degree. That T2 didn't bend as much at the toe as I would have liked, and certainly didn't bend like a good leather boot, but I guess I was hating boot-sole torque more than I was loving toe flex.

It's probably a trade-off we're all making one way or another.


Good points. The one thing about leathers that I and pretty much most using them day-in-day-out had a problem with was that boots had very distinct phases: 1st it wasn't broken in and felt odd. 2nd, after much work it broke in it did so just the way you wanted it, but then 3rd, it went quick and broke down soon after. You had a pretty small window of having things exactly right. And so you resoled it, added voile plates, whatever and then when your thighs and knees could take no more you bought new boots. Rewind. A funny thing is though, and this might just be a hold-over feel from having started on leathers, one of the problems I had with plastic boots at first, and then definitely when I went to NTN, and the reason I migrated back to my old duckbill Garas, which are a pretty soft boot that flexes a little torsionally to the outside, was that I wanted just a little outward side torque/flex on the inside boot, especially when initiating because it feels like I can bring that tip under and turning instantly before I have the opportunity to get the weight bearing down on it. There is a little, brief moment on stiff setups that feels vague. I also have a pretty pronounced angular toes to foot joint and so that might feel more natural to me just due to that. But, yeah, you give up the power thereafter and have to muscle it more, but for me it is a worth it trade off. I tend to especially fight NTN, and they will clack for a split second before my turn is established, and I hate that. But like you said it is a tradeoff. And certainly others like yourself have probably got it down pat. I never could as well as I'd like. With my Gara duckbills, pretty much. But I'm not sure I'll ever like a boot like I did my old leather/plastic Supercomps when they were just right. Like the others you mentioned I wanted more cuff height and longer lasting perfectly broke-in flex. But then again memories aren't always the truth, and if I had my old Supercomps just right and right now I might hate them compared to plastics that I now use.

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Re: Help Me Choose: Burly Leather Boots vs. Soft Plastic Boots

Postby Harris » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:19 am

Harris wrote:
teleclub wrote:
greatgt wrote:The more the leather works toward soft flexible the better....Take what are they Asolo Extremes....They are injected with something for stiffness but where it counts its leather....And having that super flexible is great....Understand most people want it stiff but there are those who like the boot as an extension of their foot and shin becoming a loving soft friend that flexes with any movement initiated...Go Mink oil....ggt

Problem is there are two kinds of boot stiffness one good, one bad. Stiffness that prevents sole torsion bending is good--at a certain ski width it gets hard to put a ski on edge with a boot whose sole torques when you lift the heel. At some point it doesn't matter how hard you big-toe-little-toe it.

I'm guessing people who favor stiffness in leather boots are trying to avoid a sole that can torque rather than preferring a boot that resists getting the ball of your foot down.

I know a lot of people liked plastic boots when they came out for the supportive height of the boot, but I liked the torsion free sole. I chose a green T2 over a T1 when I had the chance ('97) because I mainly liked that plastic boots could bend at the toe without torqueing even one degree. That T2 didn't bend as much at the toe as I would have liked, and certainly didn't bend like a good leather boot, but I guess I was hating boot-sole torque more than I was loving toe flex.

It's probably a trade-off we're all making one way or another.


Good points. The one thing about leathers that I and pretty much most using them day-in-day-out had a problem with was that boots had very distinct phases: 1st it wasn't broken in and felt odd. 2nd, after much work it broke in it did so just the way you wanted it, but then 3rd, it went quick and broke down soon after. You had a pretty small window of having things exactly right. And so you resoled it, added voile plates, whatever and then when your thighs and knees could take no more butterboot, and it became obvious you were suffering you bought new boots. Rewind. In fact, I personally never treated my leathers. I didn't want them to soften, because like you said, you want them flexible where you want them flexible. But I skied 120+ days a season, and after a season my boots were shot, and that is with new re-soles and welts mid-season. A funny thing is though, and this might just be a hold-over feel from having started on leathers, one of the problems I had with plastic boots at first, and then definitely when I went to NTN, and the reason I migrated back to my old duckbill Garas, which are a pretty soft boot that flexes a little torsionally to the outside, was that I wanted just a little outward side torque/flex on the inside boot, especially when initiating because it feels like I can bring that tip under and turning instantly before I have the opportunity to get the weight bearing down on it. There is a little, brief moment on stiff setups that feels vague. I also have a pretty pronounced angular toes to foot joint and so that might feel more natural to me just due to that. But, yeah, you give up the power thereafter and have to muscle it more, but for me it is a worth it trade off. I tend to especially fight NTN, and they will clack for a split second before my turn is established, and I hate that. But like you said it is a tradeoff. And certainly others like yourself have probably got it down pat. I never could as well as I'd like. With my Gara duckbills, pretty much. But I'm not sure I'll ever like a boot like I did my old leather/plastic Supercomps when they were just right. Like the others you mentioned I wanted more cuff height and longer lasting perfectly broke-in flex. But then again memories aren't always the truth, and if I had my old Supercomps just right and right now I might hate them compared to plastics that I now use.


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