Looking for BC XCd Ski Recommendations

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johral

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Looking for BC XCd Ski Recommendations

Postby johral » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:56 pm

New here, and found the site by researching some skis posted for sale locally.

I am looking for a ski that I can run up and down the closed logging roads in the area, while winter bird hunting. I don't intend to bomb down the side of the mountain, I just want to get from point A to point B. I am familiar with XC, and have no experience with any downhill.

Here in NE WA, we have lots of mountains (not high Alpine), with lots of dense forest and a maze of logging roads. Most are closed to Snowmobiles, so trail breaking is required, and lots of climbing (10-15 deg is typical and more is common). I understand that I mostly likely will require skins of some type, and it has been recommended that I go with a waxed ski instead of no wax for the conditions here. Of course, I don't really know what I need, I only know where I want to go. Obviously I will have to come back down when it is time to go home, but I just plan to take it easy on the way down and snow plow to keep my speed down. I hope I am getting my point across sufficiently.

I am over 200 lbs, and will likely have some type of pack with me, so I will need something with lots of float, good tracking, sufficient glide, ability to break trail, full metal edge and minimal downhill capability. I have 3 pin boots that I found locally - Alpina BC 2500s - more for a boot that I could use when I got to point B - I don't need such a boot with the type of skiing I do.

What would you recommend? Have something for sale cheap?

Thanks,

John

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Johnny

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Re: Looking for BC XCd Ski Recommendations

Postby Johnny » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:12 pm

Welcome to TTalk John!

My #1 compromise ski always seems to be the Karhu 10th Mtn / Madshus Epoch... When you're not sure of what to expect, or when you can't decide what would be the right tool, 10th Mountains always do the trick for me...

They are not the best for tracking and moving fast, but if you plan to use skins and go downhill at some point, they could become your best friends...

Plus, they are quite easy to find, either used or on sale... 8-)
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."

johral

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Re: Looking for BC XCd Ski Recommendations

Postby johral » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:54 pm

Johnny wrote:Welcome to TTalk John!

My #1 compromise ski always seems to be the Karhu 10th Mtn / Madshus Epoch... When you're not sure of what to expect, or when you can't decide what would be the right tool, 10th Mountains always do the trick for me...

They are not the best for tracking and moving fast, but if you plan to use skins and go downhill at some point, they could become your best friends...

Plus, they are quite easy to find, either used or on sale... 8-)


My only question is if they come in fat boy sizes? :D

I plan to loose about 30, but that will still put me at 200lbs, and I put on muscle easy, so losing 30 might not really pan out.

Also - the Epoch obviously has a waxless pattern on the bottom, which I've been told s far inferior to a ski with grip wax - so are skins a must? The $$$$ just keep adding up. Was thinking I could piece together a kit for little to nothing.

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fisheater

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Re: Looking for BC XCd Ski Recommendations

Postby fisheater » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:15 pm

Hello John,
Welcome, don't be afraid to come back and share bird hunting stories!
Johnny gave you excellent advice for a forgiving back country ski in the Eon. If you are looking for cheap, here is a link:https://colemans.com/shop/cold-weather-gear/u-s-g-i-cross-country-downhill-skis-2-pair/
While these skis are cheap, they are quality skis. They are not as soft and forgiving as the Eon, but they have some serious edges for that snowplow. They are available in a big man's 210 cm. I also saw a good price on Voile Mountaineer or Rotte Super Telemark 3 pin bindings at Gear X
Good luck, and just curious, are you hunting with a dog? What type of birds are you hunting in Washington?

johral

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Re: Looking for BC XCd Ski Recommendations

Postby johral » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:41 pm

fisheater wrote:Hello John,
Welcome, don't be afraid to come back and share bird hunting stories!
Johnny gave you excellent advice for a forgiving back country ski in the Eon. If you are looking for cheap, here is a link:https://colemans.com/shop/cold-weather-gear/u-s-g-i-cross-country-downhill-skis-2-pair/
While these skis are cheap, they are quality skis. They are not as soft and forgiving as the Eon, but they have some serious edges for that snowplow. They are available in a big man's 210 cm. I also saw a good price on Voile Mountaineer or Rotte Super Telemark 3 pin bindings at Gear X
Good luck, and just curious, are you hunting with a dog? What type of birds are you hunting in Washington?


Johnny mentioned the Epoch, not the Eon, but I haven't looked to see what the difference is at this point.

As for the link - do those skis have Metal Edges and Sintered bases? I'll check on the bindings.

As for birds - no dog, just out for a little exercise and the birds are a bonus. We can hunt grouse till the end of Dec. and Turkey until mid Dec.

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t-$

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Re: Looking for BC XCd Ski Recommendations

Postby t-$ » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:23 am

hey,

i am certainly no expert but i am an intermediate xc skiier. i also recently got the usgi's from colemans and i really like them. the pro's for that ski are:

- super cheap for a decent ski
- wide enough for decent float in moderate snow
- full metal edges for bc
- they seem to do much better on choppy/crusty snow than my trad xc skis

the con's are that they are heavy, and kind of cheaply made (no surprise given the price and that they were made for the gov't). waxing can be a plus or minus depending on your position and skills. i like to wax and am decent at it, so for me it's not a big deal. but already this season i have not ridden the usgi's cause i was too lazy to wax and instead took the waxless. but thats a problem with me, not the skis. edited to add that maybe i am being naive, but honestly for your (and my) skiing the difference between wax and waxless is not a big deal. if we were olympic skiiers and competing over fractions of a second, then sure be die-hard for wax and every possible advantage. but we aren't, so any loss of efficiency with waxless seems like a moot point to me. its really about preference and enjoyment of skiing.

your terrain sounds similar to mine, probably more vertical possible but it sounds like you avoid them mostly. so for rolling terrain the usgi's have done great for me so far. the other "complaint" i have is with the variability of the skis. you can read all about my experience but basically i got a pair of 200 and 210's, and the 210s are much softer flex...they are different skis really. but everyone else has posted that their 210s are similar to a normal xc double camber, so it appears mine are an anomoly. take that for what its worth.

good luck, and i hope you get some birds!!

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Re: Looking for BC XCd Ski Recommendations

Postby Askel » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:14 am

Big Guy Perspective: Don't stress about the ski width too much.

Cyldesdale class trailbreaking is going to be work no matter what you ski. I regularly go out on ungroomed trails with anything from 125mm at the tip monsters to <70mm sized skis that can fit in the tracks.

Neither is particularly better. Sure, you float a little better on the big skis, but then you have to push them through the snow. It about equals out.

Width only gets you a small advantage on the downhills- it makes it easier to get up on top of the snow sooner.

Bird stories: I too like to hunt birds just to get out, bagging any is just a bonus, but I usually hang up the shotgun after the fall season. By the time the december season rolls around, the birds are already hiding under the snow. It's been more than once I've been skiing along to have one explode from the ground between my skis when I'm right on top of them. I'm usually so stunned I can't imagine being able to get a shot off. :D

johral

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Re: Looking for BC XCd Ski Recommendations

Postby johral » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:10 am

I have been contemplating the USGI Skis, but after shipping and a set of bindings it gets to be in the same price range as a used ski, locally.

Of course, local selection is currently dismal, so that may make the decision easier!

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lilcliffy

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Re: Looking for BC XCd Ski Recommendations

Postby lilcliffy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:30 pm

t-$ wrote: i like to wax and am decent at it, so for me it's not a big deal. but already this season i have not ridden the usgi's cause i was too lazy to wax and instead took the waxless. but thats a problem with me, not the skis. edited to add that maybe i am being naive, but honestly for your (and my) skiing the difference between wax and waxless is not a big deal. if we were olympic skiiers and competing over fractions of a second, then sure be die-hard for wax and every possible advantage. but we aren't, so any loss of efficiency with waxless seems like a moot point to me. its really about preference and enjoyment of skiing.

This is a very important point about the difference between touring/trekking and high-performance XC skiing!

BUT- it is important to take a different perspective on your comments.

I do believe you are good at waxing.

And- the thing is- because it is about touring and enjoyment- where- especially in the BC- grip is actually more important than glide (and grip wax magically glides as well!)- there is no need to fuss over getting your kick wax PERFECT for skiing- NO NEED.

I typically spend no more than 5 minutes at the end of each tour- touching up my kick wax.

High-performance kick-waxing is a science, a technology and highly personalized, secret art- one that does not apply to Nordic Touring.
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

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satsuma

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Re: Looking for BC XCd Ski Recommendations

Postby satsuma » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:45 pm

I am surprised that you are getting the advice to avoid waxless skis. If you are breaking trail, the glide isn't going to be much different with waxable or waxless skis. I don't think you have to worry about icy conditions in NE Washington, so grip is not an issue with waxless skis. It may be a liittle colder where you are skiing, but at elevation in NE Oregon, it is frequently sufficiently sunny and warm enough that temperatures will change significantly during the day, often crossing the freezing point. This could make grip waxing difficult. Using skins is OK if you have a long uphill, then a downhill, but if you are continually going up and down, than waxless skis are more convenient than skins, although grip wax is still an option.


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