Boot-Binding Compatibility

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Johnny

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Re: Boot-Binding Compatibility

Postby Johnny » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:46 pm

JGF wrote:However, I _do_ seem to have an issue with the sides of the boot rubbing on the binding - as shown in the photo linked by Johnny. It's not quite as bad as in that photo but there will be rubbing withe every step.

Try to lift your heel on the binding and twist your feet very hard like if you were skiing... See how bad is the rubbing...

I'm pretty sure the Traverse, HW and 3pc share the same toe piece... I wouldn't change the boots, the Alaskas are just THE best boots ever... Just try to find older used Voile bindings... Or ask your cobbler to add a strip of leather or rubber on top of the Alaskas... A few layers of Voile Anti-Ice tape on the binding could help too...
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
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martin2007

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Re: Boot-Binding Compatibility

Postby martin2007 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:46 pm

I use S-bound 98's with Voile Hardwires. I use them with Alico double-leathers and with Scott Excursions, depending on terrain. I ski them in Colorado in Summit and Grand counties. The Hardwires are a great match w/ the Excursions, a good comfy plastic boot that gives great downhill control. The Hardwires, though, are overkill with my leathers which, while wonderful kick-and-glide boots, provide little downhill turning support. I've all 3 variations of the Voile 3-pin set-ups. If I were not using the Excursions, I'd opt for either the Voile HD (has no cable possibility) or the Voile cable. I really like the simple light Voile cable and use them with skinny Rossi alpine skis and Garmont Synergies (a beefy plastic boot) for skiing hardpack and groomers at resorts. The advantage to the simple cables over the Hardwires is the ease of attachment/detachment of the cables. They "hook" on the toe-piece easily. With the Hardwires attachment and detachment are another story: the cartridges must be "screwed" or "wound" into place which is time-consuming and annoying while out in snow and cold. Conclusion: the 98's don't need Hardwires unless you're planning on using them with beefier plastic boots for serious descents. And even then, the Voile cables will do the job fine. Voile cables are quite a bit lighter, too. Afterthought: the Hardwires' cable/cartridges fold nicely behind the heel pieces, out of the way, for ascents and kick-and-glide skiing. The Voile cables have to be secured to your boot heels, or removed altogether from the toe-piece. I find myself using my Hardwires most of the time with the Cartridges/cables stored in my pack or in my car.

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Re: Boot-Binding Compatibility

Postby teleclub » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:18 pm

I remember a long time ago with overly soft leather boots liking the extra support of the 3pin plus cable. Like others said, the way it curves around the heel is better for a too-flexy boot than the heel throw. The issue I noticed back then doing tele turns in soft boots with only pins was the heel could slip off the heel piece, and even off the side of the ski a bit, as the sole flexed and you steered strongly with your foot. Most of that can be fixed with better technique, but adding that cable to the 3pins noticeably helped a flexible sole stay on the ski centerline and behave.

This was well before "active" bindings and before we were using cable bindings to try to get stiff plastic bellows to bend.

In your situation if I already had a decent 3pin binding to use I wouldn't bother with the 3pin/cable and would just ski it--maybe your boots will do fine with pins only. But if I were buying a new Voile 3pin for $59 I would add the extra $ for the removable cables--or check ebay (or here) for those spiral spring cables/half-round heel piece. Someone is always selling a pair.

I like the idea of the Traverse for getting compatible screw holes, but how high is the Traverse riser? Assuming your soft boots are vertically soft too. Whereas with vertically stiff boots (even low plastic) riser height increases your leverage, with vertically soft boots riser height can reduce your leverage on the ski edge. IIRC, the Traverse isn't that high so maybe not a concern.

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lowangle al

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Re: Boot-Binding Compatibility

Postby lowangle al » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:42 pm

Martin, after I removed the hardwires from the toe piece on my 3pin HWs the first time buy unscrewing them(PITA) I reinstalled them by inserting the hooks up through the bottom of the slots in the toe piece. Now I can put them on and off without unscrewing them. You have to be carefull because they can fall off by themselves during transportation. I usually put a Voile strap around the heel throws during transport.

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Re: Boot-Binding Compatibility

Postby teleclub » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:06 pm

Sorry I didn't see you already got the hardwire before I posted my previous rec. Not a bad choice, especially if you're thinking the most temporary part of your set-up is your boots. Sounds like it's your boots you're most likely to replace in the next year or two, so it's good to build your kit for what you eventually want to do.

I haven't see a blank ski with no mount mark for a long time, but it used to be standard. It was normal for skis to have no marking and for the mounter to calculate CC or BP. (Alpine skis started coming with boot center marks. Some would say it's been all downhill from there ;-))

I'm not sure why the boot sole rubbing on the binding side is a bad thing. Like Johnny suggested, see if it binds a lot, enough to be an energy drain on travel, but that seems unlikely. Or if it squeaks it might be annoying. Meantime I would have thought that close contact boot sole to binding wing can make for good control, since your turning boot pushes on the binding wing not the pins, not rotating or moving side to side in the binding.

martin2007

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Re: Boot-Binding Compatibility

Postby martin2007 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:08 pm

Thanks for that advice, Al. I remember last year considering flipping the Hardwire cable hook upside-down but reading or hearing somewhere that doing so risked some kind of apocalyptic consequence. :o Anyway, you survived the mod., so I'll try that, too. Thanks.

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Re: Boot-Binding Compatibility

Postby phoenix » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:33 pm

Those Voile cables should be able to clip out of the way to the back of the heelplate.

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lowangle al

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Re: Boot-Binding Compatibility

Postby lowangle al » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:10 pm

phoenix wrote:Those Voile cables should be able to clip out of the way to the back of the heelplate.


They do, but they are a lot lighter without them and in powder snow tends to build up on the binding more so than when they are hooked on the boot. On certain tours or conditions I may not use the cables at all.

phoenix

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Re: Boot-Binding Compatibility

Postby phoenix » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:09 pm

phoenix wrote:
"Those Voile cables should be able to clip out of the way to the back of the heelplate."


"They do, but they are a lot lighter without them and in powder snow tends to build up on the binding more so than when they are hooked on the boot. On certain tours or conditions I may not use the cables at all."

Makes sense; lots of stuff for snow to catch on. I'm more and more content with my leathers and 3 pins for most of what I've been skiing lately; when I get around to more challenging lines and/or conditions though, I'll go with my plastic boots and cables.

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Re: Boot-Binding Compatibility

Postby JGF » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:50 pm

So, after asking around a bit.., it seems that many (but not all) think that the Hardwire binding is a bit of overkill for the S-bound 98.., irrespective of what boot is used.., and that the 3-pin cable is a more appropriate binding for this ski.

I haven't mounted anything yet, and am thinking of just getting the 3-pin cable - it's lighter and is almost certainly a better fit for the boot i have.

Does that sound reasonable?

thanks for all the help


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