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Re: The Åsnes Thread (News for 2018-2019!)

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:29 am
by Åsnes1922
lilcliffy wrote:Thank you for your response!
Åsnes1922 wrote: The Ousland will also have a more agressive rocker and early rise than the Gamme and Amundsen (which has none). This, together with a high and stiff camber profile, allows for great carrying capacity in deep snow. It also allows the ski to glide over and through ice, difficult snow and sastrugi with ease.
This is very interesting...
Won't it also reduce the glide zone on consolidated snow?
For example, the current Ingstad skis very short on consolidated snow...

Is the tip stiff?

I have had a lot of trouble with rocker-tipped XC skis in deep snow- when XC skiing. However, this mostly with very soft-tipped skis...
Hi again!

The glide zone will be just a bit shorter than usual, but not to a degree where it is an issue. Compared to the Amundsen BC, for example, you are right, the glide zone will be just a little bit shorter. But on the other hand, we have much of the same stiffness as you can find in the already mentioned Amundsen BC, the Gamme 54 and in our MR48 skis. All of them really good on consolidated snow. The high wax pocket, the longitudinal camber and the stiffness in the ski will make up for it in terms of gliding. It is also important to point out that we, of course, use the Nordic Rocker, meaning that it is only activated when you put pressure on the ski.

The tip in itself is quite stiff, still.

Re: The Åsnes Thread (News for 2018-2019!)

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:04 am
by Åsnes1922
lilcliffy wrote:Can we get confirmation about whether the updated 62 and 68 have full-wrap steel edges?
I have attached a picture of both the tip and tail of the new FT62. The Rabb 68 has the same steel edges.

I hear the discussion surrounding full-wrap steel edges quite often, and to be honest, there are as many pros and cons with this as with everything else.

In general, I would say that all the decisions we take when producing skis are well weighted and thought trough. We always consider all the factors we can, and always carefully consider the best option. In both the FT62 and the Rabb68, the option we have landed on is the best option to make the best possible skis and keep intact the properties we want in the skis.

Most important, it does not matter too much if you choose the one option over the other, but how the process is done and how focused one is on quality and the production process. Both options can be equally good as long as the craftsmanship is on the level it should be.

Of course, there will be several factors playing a role when we choose what kind of steel edges we want, but stiffness and weight always play a role. One can never get away from the fact that a full-wrap steel edge significantly stiffens up the ski, and that is not always what we want - especially in skis with a combination of Nordic Rocker and Camber.

Another factor is that you do not really need a seel edge in the full length of the ski, as the actual effective edge is often limited to a shorter part of the ski, this is a fact both on AT, Alpine, BC, and other skis.

From a ski builders view, wood is flexible, glue is flexible, fiberglass is flexible, carbon fiber is flexible and metal is not so much. This all plays a role when we build skis to meet the requirements we want. Hammered and abused steel edges will get stiffer over time and deform as well if one does not care for them.

Also, when making semi-cap skis (which is something we have chosen for a lot of reasons), the room for steel edges in the tips will be limited. Often when ski builders design skis with a specific tip and tail they avoid steel edges in these parts of the ski to prevent delamination and blow-out. A flexible tip is always better than a stiff and brittle tip in terms of breaking and blow-outs - which is quite logic.

Arguments by both sides have merit. As a consumer, I wouldn't really fuss over such details unless you have had problems with one or the other design in the past. Honestly, I would say it has more to do with who, when and how your ski was built in the factory when it comes to quality and durability, and that is something you can never really know or control.

Either way. It is up to us to make skis that work and do not break apart. And I believe we do that with a fairly high level of success. In the ski industry, we have generally a lot fewer problems with our skis than others have. But still, there are about 110 handheld processes while making our skis, so we can never be 100% sure that there is absolutely no human error involved - but we do our utmost best to make sure that does not happen.

Re: The Åsnes Thread (News for 2018-2019!)

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:16 am
by Åsnes1922
Nitram Tocrut wrote:
Åsnes1922 wrote:Hi again guys, I hope everything is good with you and that you've had some time to check out our new Catalogue. We will post a lot of good stuff to Instagram @asnes1922 and to Facebook this coming year, so if you like you can follow us there too.

I noticed that some have asked about the FT62 and the Rabb 68, so I will try to explain some of the differences, their intended use, and the construction. It may be easier to understand where we are coming from and what we have thought after that, I guess.

Falketind 62:

The new FT62 is really similar to the old one. Basically, the use of materials and general construction is the same. We saw the need to update the design, so that is the major change in this model. Other than that, we did some extensive testing of the ski this season and picked up on few small details we wanted to change to perfect the ski. As I have already mentioned, I use FT62 quite a lot.

Initially, when the Falketind 62 was drawn up and constructed, we based it off the former Vetletind ski. Vetletind was a full on fiber and carbon ski, designed to merge together all the knowledge we had from telemarking, alpine touring and our most playful Nordic BC skis. We took everything we liked from alpine touring skis and basically put it into a robust lightweight construction not very unlike the Ingstad ski. After that, we "beefed" it up with a more responsive wood core, more sidecut, a more aggressive rocker and some seriously overkill tails. The Falketind 62 was always supposed to be a really playful, robust and fun ski. It was supposed to be stable in speed and be easy to handle, but at the same time, we wanted to keep intact the personality a Nordic BC ski has. Meaning we wanted it to have a more classic XC camber combined with rocker and the properties needed so that the ski could be really good to walk on flats with. I believe we succeeded pretty well.

I noticed that the use of "marked camber" was not really good so that the concept of words is changed a bit. "Marked Camber" was a bad translation for a prominent/higher wax pocket. Basically, it means that the ski has a stiffer waist that allows for a higher wax pocket and softer tips - in many ways like an overly tensioned traditional alpine camber with rockered tips. It has a higher and stiffer camber than alpine touring skis, not very unlike the Ingstad ski so that it glides well on flats. The FT62 actually has a small-moderate wax pocket, but it is not that big and high, so the wax will not stay on of long - but it is possible to use grip-wax on that model.

I short words, the Falketind 62 is made to be a really playful and easy to handle Nordic BC ski. At the same time, it has a lot of the same technical details as an Alpine Touring ski, without sacrificing the Classic Nordic XC Camber with Nordic Rocker, the glide properties and the directional benefits of skis like Ingstad and Nansen. That is why we have the groove in the sole as well. As that actually has a lot of effect on how directional the ski is.

While skiing a lot on it this last two seasons, we noticed that the tails (which is really overkill) could be a bit of an annoyance. We re-discovered the versatility of the FT62, so some of us started skating with them on flats. They are really playful and easy to handle, so we played around with them a lot. While doing all kinds of fun stuff on these skis, we noticed that the high tail sometimes was in the way, especially while skating and doing really short jump-turns. An because of this we decided to make the tail a bit lower.
The tails of the FT62 is actually more aggressive than on all our Alpine Touring skis, and that is a bit overkill. It is the same with the Rabb 68, so we have lowered the tail on that ski too. It will not affect the skis in any other way than that it ends up being a bit more directional on flats, and even more stable in high-speed turns. All in all, we believe it will be even more playful and become a better ski with the small changes we have done.
I think the visual design and profile of the FT62 is much better too, so hopefully, the changes will be welcomed by the market as well.

Rabb 68:

The Rabb 68 is a further development from the FT62 and the old Storetind ski. As some of you may know, the Storetind was a really stiff carbon ski with a lot of the same properties that the new FT62 now has. The Storetind was really popular among telemark skiers, old school mountaineers and used a lot like a regular Alpine Touring ski. We first tried to make the Falketind 68, basically a Falketind 62 with more volume, more sidecut, and thicker waist. But that didn't work as well as we wanted - don't misunderstand me, it was a really good ski, but we wanted something else.

As the demand for Alpine Touring skis has grown, the demand for Nordic BC skis that can handle groomers and powder has evolved as well. That is is the basis for the Rabb 68.

The Rabb 68 does not have the same camber as the Falketind 62. It is way stiffer on the waist, the ski has more torsional stiffness and is reinforced with carbon in the tip and tail. We also added a bigger wood core, inspired by Alpine Touring and Skimo skis. There is a similar Nordic Rocker in the Rabb 68 as in the FT62, but it has more lift and is a bit more aggressive. The shape and lift of both the tails and the tips on the Rabb is more aggressive than on the Falketind. You can also notice that we have a lot more sidecut and front tips shaped quite similar as in Alpine Downhill skis and as in the skis Skimo racers use to compete.

A big difference between the Rabb 68 and the FT62 is the lack of a groove in the sole and the fact that the Rabb 68 has a lower camber profile. The wax pocket on the Rabb68 is almost gone, and it has a really similar camber profile as we have in the Fjøro 92 ski, just slightly higher.

Because of the reinforcement carbon materials, the more responsive wood core, and the overall stiffer construction. The Rabb 68 can really be skied like a proper downhill ski. It has better edge control than the FT62 and can be carved like a regular downhill ski- or alpine touring ski. It does indeed require a bit more power to ski, but the response in the wood core "springs" and "pops" equally more - resulting in a much more responsive ski. The big difference will be most notable on hard crust, groomers and while skiing steeper slopes.

In general, one may say that the Rabb68 is a true "hybrid" ski. You still have some of the XC properties in the ski, but we have adapted the ski to meet modern demands of alpine touring skis. So all in all, the Rabb 68 is a really lightweight alpine touring ski, with downhill capabilities and just a little bit of the XC DNA still left. The Rabb68 is really not that different from my old Skimo competition skis.

A fun fact at the end: The Rabb68 has been used by a few steep-skiers, and I have myself skied some really steep chutes and couloirs with it. I believe it to be the perfect ski for mountaineering and alpine scrambling, as a tool for mountaineers. Actually, one of our ambassadors and some other people we know plan on bringing it to some serious mountains in Nepal and Caucasus.


I hope this could be of help, and that I did not overly-complicate everything. Let me know if I need to clarify anything.

With mountainous regards, Crister @ Åsnes
Hi Crister,

That was really helpful... and a really good sale pitch for the FT 62! Also I must say that both Fisheater and Lilcliffy are really good advocate of the FT 62, you should hire them ;)

Although I have a “last” question. You wrote that the FT 62 has a lot more XC DNA than the Rabb 68 so I suppose that the FT 62 has significant better XC performance than the Raab? Also, I know they are not the same, but how would you compare the XC performance of the FT 62 to the Ingstad?

Thank you!
Hi!

Good to hear that this was helpful. That is reassuring.

You are right in your assumptions. The FT62 has way better XC performance than the Rabb 68. Mainly because of the with of the skis, the groove in the FT62 and the more prominent camber and wax pocket on the FT62 - in short words.

The FT62 is not very far off the Ingstad, but the Ingstad has a better XC performance for sure. Ingstad is way more directional. Mostly because of the construction, the taper, Nordic Rocker and width combined with even more camber and a stiffer mid-section (higher wax pocket and stiffer camber) in the Ingstad.

Re: The Åsnes Thread (News for 2018-2019!)

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:08 am
by greatgt
Don't know much about this tind or that tind.....but.....if the skis are as good as your World Cup Woman's team....might have to check out some-tind this season....Teleman

Re: The Åsnes Thread (News for 2018-2019!)

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:43 am
by Nitram Tocrut
Åsnes1922 wrote:
lilcliffy wrote:Can we get confirmation about whether the updated 62 and 68 have full-wrap steel edges?
I have attached a picture of both the tip and tail of the new FT62. The Rabb 68 has the same steel edges
Hi Crister,

Don’t want to be picky but you should edit the pictures in the staligue because the tips are different than in the pictures that you attached. Just saying ;)

Sorry if I am wrong 8-)

Re: The Åsnes Thread (News for 2018-2019!)

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:44 am
by Nitram Tocrut
I meant catalogue of course...

Re: The Åsnes Thread (News for 2018-2019!)

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:27 am
by Åsnes1922
Nitram Tocrut wrote:I meant catalogue of course...
Noted! It on my ever so endless list of things to do. The case is that we only take pictures of the final production model. The pictures and the catalogue needed to be finished to draft before we even finished the production. We just had to get the design and shape of the ski in the print, but you're right. The pictures you see of Rabb and FT62 in the catalogue is actually digitally constructed from the prototypes and the laminate print file.

Re: The Åsnes Thread (News for 2018-2019!)

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:09 pm
by fisheater
Crister,
The link below was my attempt to explain how the camber works on the FT 62. I also attempted to explain why I get a little "wax drag" on hardpacked trails, why the ski with just a small amount of soft snow exhibits such good performance "walking", and why it arcs so nicely in the snow.

https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic. ... 2&start=10

I posted a rudimentary diagram on page 2, attempting to put a picture to my words. If you find time, I would appreciate your thoughts if I came close to an accurate discription,
Regards,
Bob

Re: The Åsnes Thread (News for 2018-2019!)

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:01 pm
by lilcliffy
Åsnes1922 wrote:
Hi again!

The glide zone will be just a bit shorter than usual, but not to a degree where it is an issue. Compared to the Amundsen BC, for example, you are right, the glide zone will be just a little bit shorter. But on the other hand, we have much of the same stiffness as you can find in the already mentioned Amundsen BC, the Gamme 54 and in our MR48 skis. All of them really good on consolidated snow. The high wax pocket, the longitudinal camber and the stiffness in the ski will make up for it in terms of gliding. It is also important to point out that we, of course, use the Nordic Rocker, meaning that it is only activated when you put pressure on the ski.

The tip in itself is quite stiff, still.
This is good news. In my opinion and experience, the stable tip is the key to making Nordic rocker work in a Nordic touring ski.

Very interesting.
So it sounds like the Ousland BC ski is as stiff and cambered as the Amundsen- yes?
Therefore, the Ousland has a higher camber than the Gamme 54 BC?

Re: The Åsnes Thread (News for 2018-2019!)

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:20 pm
by lilcliffy
Thank you Crister for your post on the potential for negative issues related to full-wrap steel edges.

My desire for this feature is entirely due to the fact that my local- and the majority of the regional- backcountry skiing is below treeline through a densely-forested landscape. The full-wrap steel edges seem to be an advantage- at least in the short term.

For example, my FT62 tips are showing a lot of wear compared to my Ingstad BC- despite the fact that I have skied at least 10 times as many kilometres on the Ingstad...

This could also be related to the tip shape and profile as well. In my experience a raised tip seems to stand up to more abuse than a low profile tip...Thoughts?