I'm new to the forum but I suspect my problem is not. I've been a tele guy for the last 22 seasons and am based in Crested Butte. I ski at least 5 days/week, am 190 lbs and 5'11". I only buy new skiis and in a typical season my binding will rip out of the ski at least once and sometimes take the top skin with it. I use alpine skiis for the performance and lately have been buying skiis with a metal sandwich in order to give the screws something better to hold on to (latest is 3 pair of Dynastar Cham 107's). Over the last couple seasons, I've been getting upwards of 50 days before the binding loses grip. This season I switched to NTN (Outlaw X with Scarpa TX Comp boot) and mounted them to the now discontinued Cham 2.0 107 because they had advertised a metal layer under the binding plate to accommodate tele mounts. I love the performance but had the binding rip out on day 24 (the binding broke as well). Of course Dynastar isn't honoring the warranty so my local shop is going to insert helicoils in all 12 screw holes and re-mount the bindings.
Two questions: (1) Should I do helicoils on all new mounts in the future; and (2) is there a big mountain ski that will hold an NTN binding in place?
My bindings keep ripping out of my skiis
Re: My bindings keep ripping out of my skiis
welcome CBJoe,
I would say the answer to 1) is yes, definitely; you need to try something different.
Questions: is it always shop professionals mounting the bindings (and is it always the same shop or professional)? Not to say anything's wrong there but with such regular pull-outs ya gotta ask.
By helicoils do you mean inserts or actual helicoils?
Also, I'm guessing these pull-outs are happening in situations where an alpine or tech binding would have released instead of pulling screws...in other words under higher stresses than alpine bindings are meant to absorb(?). Guess I'm wondering whether this a limitation of tele bindings we'd eventually find as skis get bigger--that tele-binding screws are less able to be isolated (than fixed heel binding screws) from the forces of big moves on big skis in big terrain.
I have an NTN Freedom mounted in inserts on a middling big ski (La Sportiva Lo5 125-95-115) that has had no trouble, but fewer than 20 ski days. It's also not near as big as a Cham 107.
All my NTN bindings are mounted with inserts I put in myself, Quiver Killers or Binding Freedom, and I've wondered if that makes them more or less solidly mounted (the inserts that is, not the fact that I did them
I'm thinking they are more solidly mounted because of the inserts, not less.
I would say the answer to 1) is yes, definitely; you need to try something different.
Questions: is it always shop professionals mounting the bindings (and is it always the same shop or professional)? Not to say anything's wrong there but with such regular pull-outs ya gotta ask.
By helicoils do you mean inserts or actual helicoils?
Also, I'm guessing these pull-outs are happening in situations where an alpine or tech binding would have released instead of pulling screws...in other words under higher stresses than alpine bindings are meant to absorb(?). Guess I'm wondering whether this a limitation of tele bindings we'd eventually find as skis get bigger--that tele-binding screws are less able to be isolated (than fixed heel binding screws) from the forces of big moves on big skis in big terrain.
I have an NTN Freedom mounted in inserts on a middling big ski (La Sportiva Lo5 125-95-115) that has had no trouble, but fewer than 20 ski days. It's also not near as big as a Cham 107.
All my NTN bindings are mounted with inserts I put in myself, Quiver Killers or Binding Freedom, and I've wondered if that makes them more or less solidly mounted (the inserts that is, not the fact that I did them
I'm thinking they are more solidly mounted because of the inserts, not less.Re: My bindings keep ripping out of my skiis
I agree with teleclub about using binding freedom inserts, except... I love Binding Freedom inserts. Just saying. However, the 22 Designs use shouldered screws that are designed to fit into their bindings purposefully oversized holes (to accommodate the shoulders on the screws. Binding Freedom screws that come with the inserts are not shouldered and are machine thread, meaning they will be sloppy in the binding's holes. Not a problem so much with using them on the 22 Designs NTN Outlaws, but on the VICE and AXLEs the screws pull the metal part of the binding inward to match the under layered plastic holes and by quite a bit because the metal is somewhat outward sprung. This was an issue I ran into. Ski shops have been using helicoils for years, right? They would probably work just fine and even as well as inserts, and then they can re-use the old screws (after wire brushing/picking the threads clean). I'm assuming the helicons they use are wood screw thread pitch.
On a separate note... I use K2 Pinnacles, which have weak top sheets, and one of my pair of same said ski, my first pair, which are my tele pair, same year but different production run has no metal underfoot (the metal top sheeted are my backup, dust collector, bi-curioius AT skis, waiting for a tele mount when the sad day comes I break the ski). I ripped the Meidjo out the second week. I went back in with 22 Designs Outlaw (2 holes almost overlapped, and then switched to 22 Designs Axle (more holes). It is pure rotten Swiss cheese under there. But I haven't pulled the binding from the ski (surprisingly due to the sheer amount of scattershot). But, I'm now in the PNW, instead of CO, and we get chaos bumps rather than real moguls. Being a Crested Butte skier (was one myself years ago for a spell), you are probably needing a lot more durability from your boards, not just for bumps but those awesome packed out left mountain chutes. I'd go with the helicons in those badass Chams of your's and see what happens.
On a separate note... I use K2 Pinnacles, which have weak top sheets, and one of my pair of same said ski, my first pair, which are my tele pair, same year but different production run has no metal underfoot (the metal top sheeted are my backup, dust collector, bi-curioius AT skis, waiting for a tele mount when the sad day comes I break the ski). I ripped the Meidjo out the second week. I went back in with 22 Designs Outlaw (2 holes almost overlapped, and then switched to 22 Designs Axle (more holes). It is pure rotten Swiss cheese under there. But I haven't pulled the binding from the ski (surprisingly due to the sheer amount of scattershot). But, I'm now in the PNW, instead of CO, and we get chaos bumps rather than real moguls. Being a Crested Butte skier (was one myself years ago for a spell), you are probably needing a lot more durability from your boards, not just for bumps but those awesome packed out left mountain chutes. I'd go with the helicons in those badass Chams of your's and see what happens.
Re: My bindings keep ripping out of my skiis
Thank you for the input. 22 Designs agrees with the solutions shared by this forum, and continues to earn my business by promptly shipping repair parts. Must be tough to focus on customer service given the sweet conditions up at Targhee 