the magic and power of grip wax

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Woodserson

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Re: the magic and power of grip wax

Postby Woodserson » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:58 pm

lilcliffy wrote:This is where I disagree with you in general- it sure isn't easier if you are miserably slipping all over the place. In my neck of the woods, Nordic skiing is also becoming thought of as something that can only be done by people that are very fit- that it is too physically demanding otherwise (this is part of what is driving a choice of snowshoes over skis). This attitude is also a result of not having enough grip as well- my dear 72-year old friend can easily ski great distances in the backcountry- chiefly because he has enough grip!


I totally agree with the above... which is why I FAR PREFER wood skis for my wax stuff. It is far easier, far simpler, and far more forgiving to use wax wood skis than fiberglass wax skis. I am absolutely thumbs down on my Fischer BC Country WAXes, though I love the Crown... they are just a pain with wax.

Most people are lazy, especially when they are not used to waxing. It's kind of a mystical thing. Then, with big fixed wax pockets on fiberglass skis it just puts it over the top for most people.

Unfortunately, wood skis require pine-tarring, and appropriate storage techniques, and they are old and wood so people are suspicious. This is the downside.

My wife for years has steadfastly refused to partake in using wax skis. Even though she is a strong skier she was always consistently falling behind to me. She passed it off as a fitness disparity. She can't stand what she perceived as a giant pain in the ass waxing process. This winter, I finally persuaded her to ski her Bonna 2400's. Fifteen minutes later she was sold. Years of skepticism gone in a moment. It was such an improvement, she later took them out alone, without me, with a cork and some Toko blue. They slipped she crayoned it on, she buffed, and away she went. She loves them now! I know that if these were wax fiberglass skis she would have had frustrating moments.

As an aside, a lot of people don't want to multiple pairs of skis for the same mission. With increased variability in snow conditions, with lots of very warm wet snow and granular icy stuff, they go for the non-wax skis. I get that. They have other things to spend money on.

Thank god for Asnes.

EDIT: I want to add that my opinion is generally in relation to double-cambered wax XC skis. The single albeit high camber skis like Fischer Outbound Wax are more forgiving.
Last edited by Woodserson on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

connyro

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Re: the magic and power of grip wax

Postby connyro » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:20 pm

Does anyone have any experience with Rex Tar Universal for kick wax? Supposedly, it works in a temp range of -1C to -25C. It sure sounds like it could help simplify kick waxing for variable conditions and may save some dough. Would love to hear some feedback on this stuff: http://www.rex.fi/en/gripwax/basic_grip_waxes

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lilcliffy

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Re: the magic and power of grip wax

Postby lilcliffy » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:32 pm

connyro wrote:Does anyone have any experience with Rex Tar Universal for kick wax? Supposedly, it works in a temp range of -1C to -25C. It sure sounds like it could help simplify kick waxing for variable conditions and may save some dough. Would love to hear some feedback on this stuff: http://www.rex.fi/en/gripwax/basic_grip_waxes

Seem to remember bgregoire speaking of this perhaps?
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lilcliffy

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Re: the magic and power of grip wax

Postby lilcliffy » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:36 pm

I use universal klister for touring performance- and am very pleased- but I only use it on icy refrozen snow.

Universal grip wax- if I properly understand how it works- seems to defy physics in my mind...
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lilcliffy

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Re: the magic and power of grip wax

Postby lilcliffy » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:40 pm

Lars wrote:Is a spray wax an acceptable compromise between doing nothing and a hard/tube wax?

Pros and cons?

Hey Lars,

Do you mean glide wax/grip wax?

I have no experience with spray grip wax.

I always carry a can of liquid glide wax when I am using waxless-scaled skis- and I also use it to maintain the permanent skins on my Hoks.

There is spray-on klister as well- though I have never tried it.
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lilcliffy

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Re: the magic and power of grip wax

Postby lilcliffy » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:47 pm

lowangle al wrote:Skiing on waxless skis is like taking a jump with a rubber on, still worthwhile but not as good as it can be.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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lilcliffy

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Re: the magic and power of grip wax

Postby lilcliffy » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:02 pm

Woodserson wrote:Most people are lazy, especially when they are not used to waxing. It's kind of a mystical thing. Then, with big fixed wax pockets on fiberglass skis it just puts it over the top for most people.

Lazy or just overwhelmed and de-sensitized by their overly-busy lives (the second is what my Grandfather believed).

My wife for years has steadfastly refused to partake in using wax skis. Even though she is a strong skier she was always consistently falling behind to me. She passed it off as a fitness disparity. She can't stand what she perceived as a giant pain in the ass waxing process. This winter, I finally persuaded her to ski her Bonna 2400's. Fifteen minutes later she was sold. Years of skepticism gone in a moment. It was such an improvement, she later took them out alone, without me, with a cork and some Toko blue. They slipped she crayoned it on, she buffed, and away she went. She loves them now! I know that if these were wax fiberglass skis she would have had frustrating moments.

This is a wonderful story- thank you for sharing it!

I particularly appreciate this- "Years of skepticism gone in a moment." That is so true.

As an aside, a lot of people don't want to multiple pairs of skis for the same mission. With increased variability in snow conditions, with lots of very warm wet snow and granular icy stuff, they go for the non-wax skis. I get that. They have other things to spend money on.

This is true- and for most of my life I have been convinced that if I had to have just one touring ski it would be waxless- despite the fact that I have had the fortune of living on climates where the conditions for grip wax dominate the ski season...

After getting over my forest-klistering phobia, and embraced kicker skins as a recreational touring tool- I would give up my waxless skis if I had to.

(The exception remains my touring-for-turns skis....I still think I would buy a BC version of the Vector/Objective vs. the waxable- BUT, maybe I need to get over kick wax on these skis as well? On the other have if Voile had an integrated kicker skin....)

EDIT: I want to add that my opinion is generally in relation to double-cambered wax XC skis. The single albeit high camber skis like Fischer Outbound Wax are more forgiving.

My experiences with grip waxing p-tex in the backcountry keep improving the more I leave hard glide wax out of the recipe...
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lilcliffy

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Re: the magic and power of grip wax

Postby lilcliffy » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:21 pm

If I owned a Nordic ski shop I would include a basic wax kit with every ski purchase- for new customers.

I would schedule an initial waxing at a time when the customer could attend (included in the purchase price).

I would demonstrate and then get the customer to practice applying kick wax and corking it in (included in the price).

I would promote Nordic touring as an effortless, magical way to get off the couch and enjoy being outside in the winter.

I would stress that having enough grip is the difference between exhausted-slipping and flying.

I would explain that waxing for touring is fun and not very complicated.

I would not overwhelm customers- and dismiss customers that are not geared towards racing-level performance.

I would inform them that waxless skis do have their limited place.

I would not lie to them and suggest that waxless skis are "easier" and offer better all-round touring performance than a waxable ski.

I mean frack- you can't even buy a waxable E99 in the US? WTF is going on? This is driven by skis shops not wanting to support their customers (or sports equipment shops selling cheap shit XC ski packages- amounts to the same thing).

And don't think for a second that snow conditions in the Nordic countries are always in the perfect sweet Swix-blue spot...

BTW- it is now frackin rainin- I got soaked doing the chores- can't go sking tonight- and have now had my first taste of hops and crystal malt...
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Re: the magic and power of grip wax

Postby Lars » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:45 pm

lilcliffy wrote:
Lars wrote:Is a spray wax an acceptable compromise between doing nothing and a hard/tube wax?

Pros and cons?

Hey Lars,

Do you mean glide wax/grip wax?

I have no experience with spray grip wax.

I always carry a can of liquid glide wax when I am using waxless-scaled skis- and I also use it to maintain the permanent skins on my Hoks.

There is spray-on klister as well- though I have never tried it.


I was thinking of a compromise between waxing and not waxing on a no-wax ski to aid grip and glide in a spray application.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding the options available.


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lowangle al

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Re: the magic and power of grip wax

Postby lowangle al » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:56 pm

lilcliffy wrote:If I owned a Nordic ski shop I would include a basic wax kit with every ski purchase- for new customers.

I would schedule an initial waxing at a time when the customer could attend (included in the purchase price).

I would demonstrate and then get the customer to practice applying kick wax and corking it in (included in the price).

I would promote Nordic touring as an effortless, magical way to get off the couch and enjoy being outside in the winter.

I would stress that having enough grip is the difference between exhausted-slipping and flying.

I would explain that waxing for touring is fun and not very complicated.

I would not overwhelm customers- and dismiss customers that are not geared towards racing-level performance.

I would inform them that waxless skis do have their limited place.

I would not lie to them and suggest that waxless skis are "easier" and offer better all-round touring performance than a waxable ski.

I mean frack- you can't even buy a waxable E99 in the US? WTF is going on? This is driven by skis shops not wanting to support their customers (or sports equipment shops selling cheap shit XC ski packages- amounts to the same thing).

And don't think for a second that snow conditions in the Nordic countries are always in the perfect sweet Swix-blue spot...

BTW- it is now frackin rainin- I got soaked doing the chores- can't go sking tonight- and have now had my first taste of hops and crystal malt...


Don't forget to mention the "rubber" thing. :lol:


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