Asnes Storetind- mounting

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lilcliffy

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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby lilcliffy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:45 pm

They have a static-rockered tip, plus the tip opens A LOT with the camber compressed- you can see the difference in the photos on the Ashes link above.

And just so I am clear- Asnes is recommending pins on balance point- so even if the boot-center-mark/narrowest-point/balance-point all line up- like the FT62- pins on BP will still be further back than boot center.
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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby Woodserson » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:09 pm

That could be weird, just saying. I think a good eye-balling watching the average of the BoF on CRS before you start drilling is in order.

There are hundreds of pages of discussion on this, I know, but if the BP is at CoS for instance, you're going to be way the hell back. Maybe they have it rigged so BP is forward of COS enough to make it all work...

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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby teleclub » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:43 pm

lilcliffy wrote:...
And just so I am clear- Asnes is recommending pins on balance point- so even if the boot-center-mark/narrowest-point/balance-point all line up- like the FT62- pins on BP will still be further back than boot center.

I may not be reading this right, but I would have thought if it all lines up pin line / balance point will be about half a boot length forward of the boot center line. Meaning the place you put the boot is the same whether its toe is on the pin line/BP line or whether its center is on the boot center line. (And the narrowest part of the ski coincides with the boot center line.) That would mean the boot is in the right place for both turning and touring, if Asnes did manage to line up both mounting positions.
Last edited by teleclub on Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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lilcliffy

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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby lilcliffy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:30 am

HA! Perhaps it might help if I actually set these skis on the bench and take some measurements!!! :oops:

Hopefully, I will get a chance tonight!

What I do know is that Asnes is recommending pins on BP- regardless of the fact that I made it clear that this will be a downhill-focused ski.

Will post more once I have measured!
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fisheater

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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby fisheater » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:07 am

I have no idea how the Storetind will measure out. I can say that on the Falketind 62, I found balance point. I then measured chord center (the tail is heavily rockered) chord center came out on balance point of both skis, to the mm. I then turned the ski over, to see that also is the most narrow point of the waist.
I will be placing the Voile pins on balance point tonight.
I wish Gareth the greatest success in mounting the Storetind. I can hardly wait for the review!

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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby teleclub » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:58 am

fisheater wrote:I have no idea how the Storetind will measure out. I can say that on the Falketind 62, I found balance point. I then measured chord center (the tail is heavily rockered) chord center came out on balance point of both skis, to the mm. I then turned the ski over, to see that also is the most narrow point of the waist...

Very cool.
Wooderson also makes a good point earlier in the thread: all that tip rocker in the Storetind affects how you think about mount point for turning. My limited experience with rocker is that tip rocker/early rise makes a ski feel like it skis shorter on groomed/firm snow (but nice and long in deep snow). The area of steel edge you pressure to initiate a firm snow turn is closer to you (further back on the ski) so It potentially changes where the binding should be for best turn initiation.

In Lilcliffy's case I wouldn't hesitate to follow their pins-on-balance-point instruction. I expressed some doubt about it earlier in this thread because traditionally that's what you say for a Nordic ski not meant for turning, and I figured Asnes has some old Nordic traditionalists on staff (like me, I guess). But after Lilcliffy confirmed the instructions and fisheater and others report how exactly their Asnes ski's balance-point lines up with a boot-center mount, I was clearly wrong. Asnes is doing something more cutting edge than I expected. That's good considering how Nordic rocker introduces variables.

by the way, I have no connection to Asnes. Just impressed. My main thought of Asnes before I started reading about the new Asnes skis here on Ttalk, was they made the pretty wood skis I have displayed at home. I have one old non-wood pair from the 80s in the garage I skied a lot and didn't even realize they were still in business till I saw their stuff here.

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Woodserson

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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby Woodserson » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:08 pm

This thread needs a lot of pictures with measuring tapes, sharpie marks, skis, and then we can all have a few beers, think about how smart we are, write about how smart we are with our recommendations, and then see what you do. Afterwards, we can criticize the decision, you can chew your nails until you use the skis, and find out they are just fine- (maybe)!

(pretty much ME, everytime I mount, lots of nail biting)

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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby phoenix » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:37 pm

OK, about that chord center being an arbitrary measuement and such...

Admittedly, I am prone toward leaning toward old ways, to a degree. Following this post, I'm reading a lot of techie angst about the mounting points, who suggests what, and etc. Regarding the Asnes' in question - maybe the fact that they've been around for many decades, said mount 'em on the balance point, and re-asserted that might hold some validity?

Do you think that "new school" techniques might be easier to achieve by moving the mounting point forward to get quicker initiation... and what happens to the tails, and finish of the turn when doing so?

Might there be a reason why in the K2 catalog, circa 2009, there was a thorough explanation of why they recommend chord center mounts?

True enough, rocker and other newewst and best modifications affect the question, howeveris a long standing and time tested option a dinosaur? Apparently Asnes doesn't think so, in all cases. It ain't arbitrary, and is not necessarily the best for every ski, but is by no means arbitrary for the manufacturer's who know the intricacies of their craft.

Case in point: I picked up some Objective's end of last season. Went thru all sorts of inquiries, here and elsewhere, to choose a mounting point. Spoke to the folks at Voile, and got their measurement. Put 'em on the bench and measured multiple times... turns out Voile's suggested point, chord center, and BOF/CRS were all within a half centimeter of each other. I have not yet bothered to match boot center of anything. They ski beautifully, for me.

Now I assure you I'm not bustin' on anybody's opinion here. Nor one's technique. Just sayin' sometimes, oftentimes, new and different isn't always better... or even as new and different as it may appear. I cm. fore or aft of whatever shouldn't be an issue for a skier; you'dadjust your technique, if needed, ever so slightly to accomodate.

Long rant, I know. more simply put... it ain't such a big deal sometimes.

peace

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lilcliffy

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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby lilcliffy » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:00 pm

Phoenix-
I chose to respond to your last post in a new thread.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1853
Gareth
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lilcliffy

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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby lilcliffy » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:47 pm

SO!!!!!

Finally some measurements on this miserable raining January afternoon...

1) The Boot-Center (BC) mark on this ski is 83.8cm from the tail.
2) The narrowest point in this skis sidecut is precisely at the BC mark- 83.8cm.
3) The Balance-Point (BP) is 92.5cm from the tail (identical on both skis).
4) The Chord-Center (CC) of this ski is 93cm from the tail.

So- here is where things get SUPER cool...

If I put my 27.5 Scarpa T4 on this ski, and line up the pins with BP (as recommended by Asnes)- it puts the ball-of-foot (BOF) bellows of the boot precisely over the BC mark on this ski- which is precisely the narrowest point in the sidecut on this ski.

This ski is stiff, torsionally rigid, and has very significant tip rocker- with a stiff single camber...

With the tip rocker this ski should behave on hardpack like it has a significantly forward-mounting position- due to the tip rocker producing a shortened effective edge.

But- in deep soft snow, that wide tip should offer early tip rise and stability...

WOW!
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry


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