Asnes Storetind- mounting

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lilcliffy

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Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby lilcliffy » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:10 pm

2016 Asnes Storetind Carbon- 188cm.
https://www.asnes.com/produkt/storetind-carbon-2/

Brand new- never mounted.

Binding to mount: Voile 3-pin hardwire.

Intended use: downhill-focused both- at the groomed hill and in the backcountry.

So- I have VERY limited experience mounting Telemark skis and Telemark bindings. In the past, I have mounted all of my downhill-oriented Nordic Touring/Telemark skis on chord center- they have all been backcountry skis.

These skis have a boot center mark on them.

Any recommendations for mounting these bindings?
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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby fisheater » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:40 pm

Gareth I am very interested in your decision as well. The lift served and side country guys generally claim boot center on the mark on the ski. I will watch this thread with great interest. My plan for now is to put pencil marks at balance point, and chord center, and start scratching my head. I don't even know if my skis will come with a mark, or a recommendation.
I will keep quiet, and look forward to those more knowledgeable respond.

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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby lilcliffy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:37 pm

So- I got a response from Asnes- they recommend mounting at balance point.
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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby Johnny » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:41 pm

Oneness place will always do... ;)

Where is BP compared to CC on the STs?
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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby teleclub » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:48 pm

I should probably stay quiet too but you've already heard my preference for mounting boot center for turn-oriented tele skis with moderate (or more) side-cut.

I've mounted a lot of various skis for tele-turning on groomed and learned to favor that boot-center over my previous practice of calculating chord center and/or using balance point.

With many skis I've done, if I used CC or BP it put the boot further back and that diminished the skiers ability to pressure the front for turn initiation. Really good skiers will still turn fine but others will complain skis feel too long or hard to turn.

I believe the CC method was developed as a way to find the center of the ski, not the narrowest point of side-cut (where the boot center should be). It was developed this way either because the side-cut of skis back then was not significant enough to make a big difference, or because skis were designed for CC to correspond half-a-boot ahead of narrowest point. BP results are a different animal in my experience and mainly for when your main concern is how the ski behaves when lifted by your foot. BP has only mattered for me on skis that were designed to balance at a certain point. Lots of turning oriented skis seemed to be designed without a thought for BP.

Anyway, that's what I learned after trying it all three ways on various skis.
Old habits die hard though and I admit I calculate CC and locate BP on most skis I mount, even alpine skis (for freeheel), and even if I fully intend to mount on boot center mark (or boot center on narrowest point if boot center not marked). I'm just curious about how the ski is designed and with traditional skis I often found the mount would be the same place for boot center or CC mount.

I didn't find the Storetind on the Asnes site but it's interesting they recommended balance point even though there's a boot-center mount mark on the ski. Asnes is a smart company and if that's the correct advice from them (?) maybe they designed it with a balance point that works right for the boot-center.

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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby lilcliffy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:42 pm

Johnny wrote:Oneness place will always do... ;)

Where is BP compared to CC on the STs?

Haven't gotten past the stroking and gawking :oops: phase yet- haven't time to drive to Houlton and pick up my bindings.

I will certainly be measuring them.

I sent Asnes a second email being specific about downhill-focus- they re-stressed balance point.

Based on their last email- and another report from someone that just bought a FT62 (!)- I am actually expecting balance point and boot center to both match the middle or narrowest point of this ski...

Will let you know ho it measures out!
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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby lilcliffy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:02 pm

teleclub wrote:I should probably stay quiet too but you've already heard my preference for mounting boot center for turn-oriented tele skis with moderate (or more) side-cut.

Well thank you for not staying quiet- please do not!

I've mounted a lot of various skis for tele-turning on groomed and learned to favor that boot-center over my previous practice of calculating chord center and/or using balance point.

With many skis I've done, if I used CC or BP it put the boot further back and that diminished the skiers ability to pressure the front for turn initiation. Really good skiers will still turn fine but others will complain skis feel too long or hard to turn.

I believe the CC method was developed as a way to find the center of the ski, not the narrowest point of side-cut (where the boot center should be). It was developed this way either because the side-cut of skis back then was not significant enough to make a big difference, or because skis were designed for CC to correspond half-a-boot ahead of narrowest point. BP results are a different animal in my experience and mainly for when your main concern is how the ski behaves when lifted by your foot. BP has only mattered for me on skis that were designed to balance at a certain point. Lots of turning oriented skis seemed to be designed without a thought for BP.


I agree- chord center is almost a ridiculously arbitrary mounting point- an could end up being anywhere depending on the shape/camber/rocker of the ski- and the shape of the tip. Made a bit more sense in years gone by with traditional, narrow Nordic backountry skis- that had minimal sidecut, and elongated, raised tips- mounting at chord center on these skis did exactly what you are speaking of- moved the mounting point ahead of balance point, and improved turn initiation (it also improves traction in XC skiing and climbing).

Balance point- on its own- is a XC mounting point.

It starting to become clear that Asnes' Nordic BC touring skis (i.e. "fjellskis") and their hybrid AT/Fjellski may all have balance point at the narrowest point of the sidecut. (I have no idea what the deal is with their full-on downhill skis (i.e. "toppturskis")).

I didn't find the Storetind on the Asnes site but it's interesting they recommended balance point even though there's a boot-center mount mark on the ski. Asnes is a smart company and if that's the correct advice from them (?) maybe they designed it with a balance point that works right for the boot-center.

I need to take all the measurements- sorry I haven't yet!

I am suspecting- based on the most recent communication- that BP will be at the narrowest point of the ski- will be interesting to see if this also lines up with boot center.

The Storetind- like the Falketind 68- is designed to be an overlap ski between their Fjellskis and their Toppturskis. I say this because, there is likely European skiers that have put AT bindings on these skis- at the very least, that would explain the boot center mark.

My friend- that just measured up the narrower FT62- told me that this ski does not have a boot center mark, that BP and the narrowest point line up perfectly, and that Asnes recommends balance point. I don't think Asnes expects anyone to mount an AT binding to the FT62...

REGARDLESS!!!- I will post all of these measurements- but, at this point I am planning on following Asnes' advice.

Thank you for weighing in on this Teleclub- appreciate it.
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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby teleclub » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:47 pm

lilcliffy wrote:
teleclub wrote:...
My friend- that just measured up the narrower FT62- told me that this ski does not have a boot center mark, that BP and the narrowest point line up perfectly, and that Asnes recommends balance point. I don't think Asnes expects anyone to mount an AT binding to the FT62....


That is very cool if Asnes is managing this--designing the ski so the mount point for boot center is the same for balance point. And can't be easy either with all the other stuff going on inside a ski to make it exactly the same weight behind and in front of that mark half-a-boot ahead of the boot center mark. It's like the Norwegians saying to the Austrians, "we can do anything you can do on top of our Nordic thing."

Whether or not this is true it has seemed to me lately reading this site:
Skis in this market are weirdly brilliant lately given that we keep hearing the market is disappearing.

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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby Woodserson » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:23 pm

Rocker screws everything up and throws it all out the window. Not that this is bad, of course, it just is. I have mounting and remounting my alpine-tele skis like a crazy man and still running into issues.

LC, do these have Teh Rocker?

I wouldn't be surprised if Asnes nails the BP with CC and all that jazz though, they seem like a precise company that has it down to a goddamm science.

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Re: Asnes Storetind- mounting

Postby lilcliffy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:45 pm

They have a static-rockered tip, plus the tip opens A LOT with the camber compressed- you can see the difference in the photos on the Ashes link above.

And just so I am clear- Asnes is recommending pins on balance point- so even if the boot-center-mark/narrowest-point/balance-point all line up- like the FT62- pins on BP will still be further back than boot center.
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