Do I need a rebar?

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Johnny

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Do I need a rebar?

Postby Johnny » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:34 pm

Hey, what the hell is a rebar Johnny? Those thingies to reinforce concrete? No no, more like a resole, but for NNN...

I have only been NNNing downhill for a few years... So I don't know much about boot's durability or how to replace the bar. My right boot (Alaska BC, on the right in the pic) is getting quite loose. When the binding is closed I have quite a substancial play between the bar and the binding. Maybe like a millimeter or something... Not much you will say, but on 215cm skis, this translates into 1-2cm at the tips... Quite a lot for fast downhill technical descents...

Is there something I can do? It's not the binding, I tried with others... That doesn't look like serious wear... Or is it? The bar seems to be still straight... From what I see (What looks like a crack bottom right), it looks like the bar assembly could be replaced...?

Help Nordic Nerds friends! Bri7, what would you do? Thanks! 8-)

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/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
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phoenix

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Re: Do I need a rebar?

Postby phoenix » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:07 pm

I'm not an NNN'er, so I won't pretend to offer wisdom on that situation much, but it sure looks to me like that right boot in the photo must be getting some significant looseness when skied, and is in the fast lane for failure. While I'm a 3 pinner myself, I have sold and warranteed a slew on NNN-BC stuff; this is not unheard of. Think of it on a par with 75mm de-lam's; it happens once in a while.

Re-soling NNN - I got no clue.

Bri7

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Re: Do I need a rebar?

Postby Bri7 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:25 pm

If someone somehow put it in one day, you can take it of the other day.

I’m not sure if it been molded or slided in. Could you take a picture of the side of the boot?

Before attemting anything stupid on Alpina boots i’d like to rip the sole off on a lower end boot. I’m not sure the entire power can be transfered on a tiny bar of metal holding on to some plastic. The bar could be bended somewhere inside the sole to give it more stregth. If so, a rebar could be more complicated.

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fisheater

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Re: Do I need a rebar?

Postby fisheater » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:24 pm

I never have had an NNN boot, but I believe there could very well be a metal plate that would have been molded in. If you drilled in about 1/16" you would find either a plate, or find me wrong. If there is a plate it would be the bottom of a steel rectangle, the bar being the top. You should be able to secure the plate, and bar with rivets or barrel bolts if my mental picture is correct.
Good luck, regardless.

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Re: Do I need a rebar?

Postby w8n4snow » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:06 am

Mine have been very loose for a year almost- I can wiggle both a lot, one side probably 3mm!? The rubber there is trashed Enough to see that the wire makes a 90 degree bend shortly after entering the rubber, and heads back towards the heel... I spect they are molded in and may have an additional bend at far end. Quite a strong design. The failures I have seen are the bar breaking where it is visible. My bars are bent slightly and very gouged by rocks from walking and spring mud skiing. I think a full resole using donor boots is a realistic option if you know a good cobbler.

I keep dreaming of the next gen Nnnbc sole- softer rubber with vibram-ish sole and dynafit toe inserts, and a heel welt that will take a crampon heel bail!

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Re: Do I need a rebar?

Postby lilcliffy » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:55 am

w8n4snow wrote:Mine have been very loose for a year almost- I can wiggle both a lot, one side probably 3mm!? The rubber there is trashed Enough to see that the wire makes a 90 degree bend shortly after entering the rubber, and heads back towards the heel... I spect they are molded in and may have an additional bend at far end. Quite a strong design.

Good info.

I keep dreaming of the next gen Nnnbc sole- softer rubber with vibram-ish sole and dynafit toe inserts, and a heel welt
that will take a crampon heel bail!


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lilcliffy

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Re: Do I need a rebar?

Postby lilcliffy » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:21 pm

I have never broken an NNN toe bar- in the past the boot uppers have worn out before the sole has...

HOWEVER- my current and only pair of Alaska NNNBC now has 5 seasons of very intensive skiing on them (thousands and thousands of touring kms on rolling and hilly terrain- plus as much moderate downhill skiing as I can possibly find!!)

The toe bar on one of my boots has a little bit of play- less than 1mm.

I am relieved to hear the report on the internal reinforcement of the toe bar.

What I have noticed is that the "rubber" at the toe-end of the outsole does wear- just from skiing. If I compare my Alaskas to the new boots my son has- the rubber is almost worn down to the bar on my Alaskas, and their is s good 2mm of rubber on the new boots...

There is likely more wear from XC skiing than from downhill skiing with NNNBC. The NNNBC to bar is far enough back that the toe-sole of the boot is always engaged with the binding plate tracks, and the entire ball of foot would be engaged with the binding plate in a weighted downhill turn. When XC skiing there is constant articulation on the bar, and constant friction between the toe-sole and the binding plate...

SO- I have never tried to repair a NNNBC sole to try and reduce bar play/movement...

What if you tried a thin layer of urethane glue ("Goop"/"shoe goe") on the toe-sole and around the toe bar?

What I do know is that my Alaska uppers are in excellent condition- it would be great to be able to resole them- that is unless the cost is more than a new pair!!!!

BTW- I recently tried on a new pair of Alaskas- blown away by how much stiffer they are than my broken in pair. HOWEVER- the sole-flex of my broken-in Alaskas is still more supportive than a boot like the Rossi BCX6...
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lowangle al

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Re: Do I need a rebar?

Postby lowangle al » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:35 pm

Unfortunately Johnny I think you need a "reBoot"

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Johnny

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Re: Do I need a rebar?

Postby Johnny » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:08 am

Geeeez... 3mm of play? The bar itself is 5mm... ;)

1mm on NNN is not so bad I guess for 3-4 years of downhill use... It would take me only half a season to get the same wiggle on pins and duckbills... :lol: But on my longer skis, it does make a noticeable difference...

Shoe Goo or urethane wouldn't last... I don't think any material would be strong enough... It's the lateral play that bugs me...

Yeah they seem to be very well built... It seems like there is a bar assembly block that can be removed... Doesn't look like an easy job... :?

I don't care about the wear... But if the wiggle keeps growing, it sure will become problematic...

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/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."

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lilcliffy

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Re: Do I need a rebar?

Postby lilcliffy » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:16 am

Looking at that photo- appear that there is more wear on one side than the other?
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