I hate my bindings

This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
TomH

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:27 pm

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby TomH » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:53 pm

Uhh Targas..... Not a fan of those bindings, but ski what you got. The wedges will make a very noticeable difference on those. Just carpet test the ones you have with one unramped on one foot and a ramped one on the other, and I think you'll see the difference. The wedges also eliminate some of the initial dead spot before spring engagement for those, so they'll feel a bit more responsive. That being said, underfoot bindings ski better in my opinion (HH, Axl, BD-01/02, etc.)

I'm surprised you're having that much difficulty at 180 lbs though. My wife at 120 doesn't have any issue keeping her (women's) T2's down with R-8's, but I'll actually have to go home and check to see if her bindings are ramped (don't think they are).

People have tried differene de-rockering options in the past. Generally, it's a pretty temporary fix and the boot rockers back out.

Harris

Rank: XCD Pinhead
XCD Pinhead
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:08 pm

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby Harris » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:32 pm

G3 Targas with side springs were/are absolutely horrible rocker launchers, even wedged. I know, I've had em and hated em. Used them a few days with old Garment Garas that were from factory made with a lot of elf toe that only increased with age. But ultimately it isn't the boot as much as it is the binding. It had a lot to do with where and the way the cable was captured to the side of the toe plates; it seems literally made to pull the heel up. Before going to 22 Designs AXL and Vice bindings (today I still used my old Garmonts and never feel rocker launch in my 22 Designs) I ditched the Targas for much less burly-built, wedged Red Chili bindings that were a pain for their own reasons (their cables are much smaller and hook to the sides of the toe-plates and those hook ends can be a pain (they sometimes get stuck half unhooked when putting the skis on, which is irritating) but were far better as per rocker launch (they still promoted some but it was manageable). As for durability, I used them many days and never broke them, but others haven't had the same luck. Agree with other posters who mention under boot cable routing binding or going to a 22 Designs (or a Bishop). No matter what your level, skiing with rocker launch sucks for the times/moments you aren't in a tele. Definitely look at the bindings for replacement first. If you like the boot fit stay with them. There are good options out there.

User avatar
woodchuck

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:28 am

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby woodchuck » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:29 pm

So I tried Paul Parker's free heel parallel technique tonight. Weight the uphill edge of the uphill ski, then roll onto the downhill edges and carve your way into the fall line and beyond. What a light bulb moment. That just works. I still don't like my bindings very much, but I guess I can live with 'em a while longer :-).

Tomorrow we get real snow -- yippee!! Time to break out the fat skis and have some fun.

teleclub

Rank: XCD Pinhead
XCD Pinhead
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:49 pm
Location: Wasatch

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby teleclub » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:47 pm

lowangle al wrote:...Rocker launch is when you can't get the heel down WITH weight on it, and I doubt you would be able to make P turns too good either...

Two ways I've fixed rocker launch is with the Voile wedge under Riva IIs and with the Voile VP-II binding, no longer made. The VP-II has a nice up-ramp shape under the toe that matches the rockered shape of Scarpa plastics, especially well used.

I've described here somewhere how T1 rocker launch prevented my wife's heels from touching the Riva II heel plates standing with her full weight on the boots (on the carpet at home). I didn't notice this in the original set up and when she described it, I realized it was rocker launch and ran out for the Voile wedges. When she changed bindings I looked for that ramp and she chose the VP-IIs for that reason. Now she has NTN Freedom which also have a nice toe ramp shape preventing rocker launch.

User avatar
EvanTrem

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:21 am

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby EvanTrem » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:40 pm

I have been skiing Bishop Bombers for the last two seasons. Amazing resort binding, the toe bale design eliminates rocker launch in my opinion. I can ski those bindings with my newer Black Diamond boots or with my worn out "super elf toe" Garmont Ener-G boots and they feel very similar. Definitely not a touring oriented binding, heavy with no tour mode. (though I have removed one of the two springs for the uphill to greatly reduce resistance). A few weekends ago I went back to my other skis with BD 03s on them, felt floppy and terrible with so much rocker launch and very little lateral control. Just my two cents.

anemic

Rank: XCD Pinhead
XCD Pinhead
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:39 pm

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby anemic » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:59 am

That Bishop Bombers fill me with desire. Gorgeous engineering and execution. They look like NASA gave tele a proper binding.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Call it Nordic Freeride

TomH

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:27 pm

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby TomH » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:07 am

EvanTrem wrote:I have been skiing Bishop Bombers for the last two seasons. Amazing resort binding, the toe bale design eliminates rocker launch in my opinion. I can ski those bindings with my newer Black Diamond boots or with my worn out "super elf toe" Garmont Ener-G boots and they feel very similar. Definitely not a touring oriented binding, heavy with no tour mode. (though I have removed one of the two springs for the uphill to greatly reduce resistance). A few weekends ago I went back to my other skis with BD 03s on them, felt floppy and terrible with so much rocker launch and very little lateral control. Just my two cents.


Wow - you have two bindings on complete opposite ends of the spectrum, I bet you noticed a huge difference. The bishop has arguably the best lateral control of any 75mm binding with the full plate design. The only one that would likely be as good is probably Bishop's new offering that came out this year. The 03 on the other hand, is just about as floppy as Targa.

While the bishop certainly takes care of rocker launch with the bail, the downside is that the spring engagement on the rockered boot is a little delayed as the boot rolls up on the toe.

User avatar
EvanTrem

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:21 am

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby EvanTrem » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:31 am

TomH wrote:Wow - you have two bindings on complete opposite ends of the spectrum, I bet you noticed a huge difference. The bishop has arguably the best lateral control of any 75mm binding with the full plate design. The only one that would likely be as good is probably Bishop's new offering that came out this year. The 03 on the other hand, is just about as floppy as Targa.

While the bishop certainly takes care of rocker launch with the bail, the downside is that the spring engagement on the rockered boot is a little delayed as the boot rolls up on the toe.


You are very right, when from skiing the O3 and Targas to the Bishop, it blew my mind. I will admit with the very rockered boots there is a bit of dead zone as the boot rolls up, you can make this better by adding more tension on the heel when you engage the binding. That first bit of motion has maybe 50% resistance compared to the actual binding activity, but hey, I will take that any day over being actually pushed forward with rocker launch.

I love the Bishops, hard to find though. I snagged mine for a good price on Ebay but even used they aren't cheap. Sometimes I worry about the total lack of release (I'm sure my knee/leg would give out before the binding even budged), but otherwise they are amazing.

Harris

Rank: XCD Pinhead
XCD Pinhead
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:08 pm

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby Harris » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:04 am

EvanTrem wrote:
TomH wrote: I love the Bishops, hard to find though. I snagged mine for a good price on Ebay but even used they aren't cheap. Sometimes I worry about the total lack of release (I'm sure my knee/leg would give out before the binding even budged), but otherwise they are amazing.


Have you tried those new Bishop BMF3's? Wondering how they compare feel-wise to the 22 Designs AXL and Vice.

User avatar
woodchuck

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:28 am

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby woodchuck » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:57 am

Skied my latest Craig's List score last night... 174(ish) Super Stinx with G3 Targa T9s, these are wedge equipped. Wedges help on the downhill for sure, add noticeable boot flex on the uphill (annoying). I like the Super Stinx. Very confidence inspiring, easy to control. At some point, I need touring bindings. What's the best touring binding for an Excursion class boot? Switchback?


Return to “Telemark Talk Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests