I hate my bindings

This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
User avatar
woodchuck

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:28 am

I hate my bindings

Postby woodchuck » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:12 pm

Is there a relatively low stiffness 75mm tele binding with tour mode that puts the heel of the boot on the stop in neutral? Does it weigh 5# and cost > $300? I'm really tired of fighting rocker launch.

User avatar
lowangle al

Rank: XCD Guide
XCD Guide
Posts: 918
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:36 pm

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby lowangle al » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:18 pm

Rocker launch is caused by the boot I would think. You can get a binding with a ramp or a wedge to help. What boot are you wearing?

User avatar
woodchuck

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:28 am

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby woodchuck » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:34 pm

Excursions, old T2s.

Wedges don't seem (in the few cases I've observed, admittedly very limited) to help in the long run. Boots seem to end up in the same place, with elf toes as a "bonus".

I'm a beginner and I'm not good enough at tele to tele turn exclusively. I fall back on alpine a lot. If I want to make a snappy unweighted pivot, I want to be able to do so without catching the effing tails three times out of five. This is driving me... mental.

User avatar
woodchuck

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:28 am

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby woodchuck » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:18 am

Paul Parker alludes to this edge catching issue in his chapter on alpine turns, so I am obviously not the first to discover this. He suggests a different, smoother, approach to the alpine turn wherein one weights the uphill edge of the uphill ski firmly, then switch edges, let the skis come through the fall line. I'll try this.

Some ski patrol dude on tele gear must have been following me down yesterday, watching me struggle. He came on by, said hi, proceeded to crank off a few beautiful, smoooooth tele turn examples. No poles, total control. Inspiring. But at this point so far over my head. So much to learn.

But it still seems like the basic tele cable binding design that puts the heel way the hell up in the air is kinda retarded.

TomH

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:27 pm

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby TomH » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:44 am

T2's were about the worst for rocker launch. What binding are you currently running and how much do you weigh?

AXL's have a higher toe bar that cures most rocker launch and also has an adjustable pivot that you likely be beneficial for your learning. They're not light though, but there's plenty of used ones to be had.

Otherwise, Switchback or Switchback X2 both have ramped toe-pieces that will cure most of the launch as well. Boots will only rocker to a certain point, and the ramps and wedges generally are successful in curing it.

Otherwise, different boots are much less prone to it (i.e T2X, T2 eco, SynerG, etc.)

User avatar
lowangle al

Rank: XCD Guide
XCD Guide
Posts: 918
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:36 pm

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby lowangle al » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:53 am

I wonder if your problem is rocker launch. None of my boot/ binding combos let the heel rest on the heel plate without weight on it. Rocker launch is when you can't get the heel down WITH weight on it, and I doubt you would be able to make P turns too good either. It sounds to me like you aren't getting enough weight on the rear foot. Try moving your hips back so they are over your rear foot.

You're right there is a lot to learn. I have gotten some god tips from the old NATO videos by Dickie Hall. "The Joy of Telemarking" would be a good one.

anemic

Rank: XCD Pinhead
XCD Pinhead
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:39 pm

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby anemic » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:48 pm

I recently swapped out bindings, somewhat owing to this reason. Voile 3 pc cable bindings introduced me to the concept of rocker launch when I tried that binding with my Garmont Synergy boots. Caught me off guard because I had not experienced it with my leather boots. For this and other reasons, I ended up mounting a Hardwire binding to that same ski. HW comes with a rocker launch preventive mounting rail (plastic mounting plates if you will).

First, it gets the boot off the ski deck which adds a bit of leverage (works better for turning, like the Derbyflexes that appeared on racing and carving skis in the 90s). Second, it is ramped / shaped a bit like a rockered boot, not a flat ski deck with a heel pad. The heel is still sprung up a bit, but the ramp helps a lot.

Is it possible to extend your cables for less spring tension, and see if this alleviates that launchy feeling?
Call it Nordic Freeride

Rodbelan

Rank: XCD Pinhead
XCD Pinhead
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:53 am

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby Rodbelan » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:56 pm

T2... you bet. They develop a lot of rocker with use... Some bindings will make it worst, like the side cable bindings, with their inherent dead spot once you start lifting the heel. With an under-the-boot cable bindings, it is less of a problem. When I use my T2x (lots of rocker) I prefer that later kind of binding. With my Black Diamond boots (no rocker), it is ok to use my R8.

User avatar
woodchuck

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:28 am

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby woodchuck » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:10 pm

I've got three pair of skis now with G3 targas (Craig's List addiction). Two of these are mounted without wedges. The latest set, which I have not skied yet, have wedges. I am going to try these later this week... if that solves the problem, well, I know what to do.

I'm plenty big enough (180) to set the heels down, but it's enough load to be annoying, feels like 20+ lb per heel. And I think enough to keep me from unweighting the tails short of actually leaping off the snow. The binding tension on the G3 makes no difference, tour or ski mode, doesn't affect the unloaded heel height at all.

T2 modification project... I'm working on a method to take (some of) the rocker out of my T2s. Fixturing plus heat. Looks like there is hope for this, need some time to figure it out and see how permanent the mod is.

User avatar
woodchuck

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:28 am

Re: I hate my bindings

Postby woodchuck » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:12 pm

Rodbelan wrote:With an under-the-boot cable bindings, it is less of a problem. When I use my T2x (lots of rocker) I prefer that later kind of binding.


I'd wondered about this. Thanks for confirming that thought.


Return to “Telemark Talk Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests