3 pin or tts?

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trashcat

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3 pin or tts?

Postby trashcat » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:52 pm

So I've built a couple pairs of skis over the past year, so far all Hok clones made out of steam bent wooden planks with metal edges, bases, and skins inset into the bases, and I'm trying to decide what boot/binding combo to use with them. I also want to build a ski in the dimensions of the annum with a wooden base and metal edges and would like the same boot/binding system for them as well.

I could use three pin cable traverses and leathers and a tiak/lurk. This system is the lightest on my feet and the most comfortable, but the tiak/lurk is less than ideal on flat ground as far as I can tell.

I could use 3 pins and excursions/T4s. The problem with this is excursions/T4s are heavier than leathers or any of the new fangled tech system boots (dynafit tlt7 performance boots weigh a pound less per boot, others weigh even less).

I could use a tech system. But I worry about this being uncomfortable on long flat sections.

I do a lot of skiing in variable terrain with some trips to the Adirondacks (I hope!), and am looking for the magic bullet set up for all of this that weighs an ounce, climbs like the dickens and descends like a train on rails. JK. I know that isn't how this works and that all of these alternatives have pros/cons. I'm just looking to hear everyone's opinions. I also know that the vast majority of my skiing (despite my dreams of it being otherwise) is on mostly moderate terrain.

I'm leaning towards three pin cable traverse bindings with something like crispi svartisens and a lurk. I just think the aesthetic goes best with homemade wooden skis, and I like the old school style and having to really learn some skiing skills.

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lowangle al

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Re: 3 pin or tts?

Postby lowangle al » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:37 pm

Welcome to the forum trashcat. I can't speak about the tts but if you go 3 pin you could use leather boots or a t4- excursion type boot. The wider skis may need a more rigid boot in firm conditions.

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Woodserson

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Re: 3 pin or tts?

Postby Woodserson » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:47 pm

This is a great first post for so many reasons! Welcome!

I am tres intrigued by your skis and I would love to see some pics, they are easily attached by using the tab below the text box and adding inline. A few of us have dabbled or dream of dabbling in ski making and it seems you've nailed it. Also, where are you located?

Your boot binding dilemma is well thought out. I agree on many of your points with the compromises given to each. I can develop sufficient power and control with my Antarctics and the 3pin/cable on my mid60mm waisted skis to be happy with the set up. I think the Svarts will give you that extra power you're going to need torn an Annum style ski. Your home made Hoks are another question, but many people find ample joy with winter boots and the universal binding, so if you've rockered them sufficiently paired with lightness you could have a set up that works with both skis. The universal binding is also an option with a pair of tighter fitting winter boots. You can make a universal style binding for aesthetic reasons too with some imagination. That may be a path I would strongly consider as well, and you can adapt your skiing style and to suit.

The Svarts fit me funny, have you tried them on?

The thing with the Adirondacks is the longer and flatter approaches to some areas, I am definitely not a lurk guy, I'd want two poles for that, but that's just me.

So, lots of talk. I hope to see pics of the skis AND you in the white room with your sticks after dropping an ice band in some Adirondack slide. Beer in one hand with blower curling off your poop eating grin.

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Johnny

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Re: 3 pin or tts?

Postby Johnny » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:05 am

I guess this is where the pariah chimes in to highlight the virtues of NNN-BC?

I meditated on this several times too... I have 4 pairs of skishoes, one with pins, one with universals, and 2 pairs with NNN... No way I would personally go tech on anything, leathers are just the most precious thing in the world... 8-)

Woodserson wrote:I hope to see pics of the skis AND you in the white room with your sticks

Pleeease do...!!!
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lilcliffy

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Re: 3 pin or tts?

Postby lilcliffy » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:28 am

I have no personal experience with TTS- though I have certainly skied in AT tech boots and bindings...

I also have very limited experience with trying NTN on-piste- am I correct in assuming that the only boot options for TTS are NTN boots with the toe swapped out to a tech insert?

Have you tried touring in NTN boots? I would try that first...

I can certainly imagine using NTN or a TTS setup for true up-down big-mountain "touring" (but -only to enjoy the telemark turn on the way down- even TTS can't compete with true AT for up-down performance).

I have no desire to use big-mountain Telemark (or AT) boots for traditional Nordic touring (i.e. overland travel)...

NN-75mm-3pin still offers the widest range of versatility in Nordic skiing- because you can swap out the boot from a soft floppy XC "shoe" all the way up to big-mtn Telemark boots.

I love my Alaska NNNBC boots on my Hoks- but I don't care for the riser of the binding adapter plate- and the adapter plate also stiffens up the mid-section of the Hok considerably- making them less smeary in powder snow- didn't like it. I have gone back to universal bindings on my Hoks- though I miss the free-feel of striding on them with my Alaska boots!

On the subject of using a tiak for overland travel- bushwacking forest skis like the Hok do not "fly" on the flats- and a light softwood tiak is a very suitable mate on all terrain with a Hok-like ski. I actually use my Hoks most without poles of any kind- I strap my tiak (which happens to double as a forestry measuring stick) to my pack on the flats when I really want to travel.
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

trashcat

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Re: 3 pin or tts?

Postby trashcat » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:50 pm

I'll definitely post pics later when I'm home. I could do a write up of the process too if anyone is interested. It's not that hard and doesn't require that many tools (though I'm blessed to have a few that make the process a lot quicker). Thanks for the thoughts, too.

I haven't tried any of the boots in question on, and skied on the one pair I had finished last winter with a pair of merrill leathers that I had a hell of a time trying to turn in. They glided better than I thought they would, though, maybe because I used more camber than the actual hok. I'm not sure.

I'm now located in Ithaca, NY btw. I was until recently in Rochester.

I'm trying to come up with a pole system that I could use as a lurk that would split apart and become a two pole system for flats. Any ideas on this, either? I'm almost thinking something like a two piece kayak paddle.

EDIT:

Part of what makes me grumpy (I'm sure others feel this way too) about having to make this decision at all is that manufacturers could easily be spending more money on developing better 3 pin or NNNBC boots, it's just that AT is all the rage now so all the development money seems to be going there. The T4 hasn't changed in how many years? It could easily be an 800 gram boot if the powers that be decided to make it so.

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Re: 3 pin or tts?

Postby STG » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:24 pm

trashcat:

Making your own skis-wow! Very impressed. Lots of wisdom and good tech knowlege on this forum which can help you decide. Good point about all the money/energy being put into development of AT gear. I started my BC on AT gear many years ago but switched to 3-pin and NNN system. I ski on old t-3's (brown boots) which were the original Scarpa. I like them better than the T-4's because they are softer and feel more like leather. I have had three pairs and the last pair I picked up for $30. XCD downhill/tradtional telemark is a small niche so I don't think we are going to see any big investment from ski companies in this market. Hope I am wrong.

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Johnny

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Re: 3 pin or tts?

Postby Johnny » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:41 am

trashcat wrote:I'm trying to come up with a pole system that I could use as a lurk that would split apart and become a two pole system for flats. Any ideas on this, either? I'm almost thinking something like a two piece kayak paddle.

This pole already exists on the market. It's called the J6APALS, Acronym for Johnny's 6$ Advanced Pole-and-Lurk System. This is what I use as Tiak. The ultimate pole for deep snow, and it changes into a lurk when held together. With baskets at both ends of the lurk, the balance is just perfect. More info right here:

https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=690&p=18329#p18329
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
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blastOplast

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Re: 3 pin or tts?

Postby blastOplast » Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:13 pm

Johnny wrote:I guess this is where the pariah chimes in to highlight the virtues of NNN-BC?

Do you think a ski like the Annum is manageable with NNN-BC? Obviously ability, conditions, and boot play a big role in the answer.

I would love to know if folks think this is reasonable. I have a pair of Anuums that I hardly ever use with T4s and was thinking of switching them to either TTS (probably the Lynx), Rottefella Freedoms (just because I have them in a drawer), or... NNN-BC. I am considering phasing out my duckbills and conforming my quiver to either NTN or NNN-BC.

trashcat

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Re: 3 pin or tts?

Postby trashcat » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:08 am

Hey all,
So I went with rossignol bcx 675s because I found a pair on gear trade for forty dollars that I couldn't pass up. I can't truly say how I lake them until I've skied in them, but I'm hopeful they'll be the solution. They're light and offer more support than I was expecting. I'm trying to come up with a way to modify them for a walk/ski mode. Then they'd really be the ticket. Part of what helps is that I only weigh about 130, so I don't think I need as stiff a boot as some larger people


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