Fischer Sbound 112 ?

This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
User avatar
Johnny

Rank: XCD KNIGHT
XCD KNIGHT
Posts: 1738
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:11 pm
Location: Quebec / Vermont

Re: What is the ultimate compromise ski?

Postby Johnny » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:14 am

Hey Aqua,

Not an easy choice... I would stick with the Fischers, since they offer much more possibilities. Super fast glide, waxless crown, Easy Skins if needed... While you are stuck with slow skins on the OACs... But yeah, it all depends on the intended use... ;)

No matter which one you end up returning, you sure will have lots of fun!!!

(Why not keep both, try them and maybe sell a pair used here next year? 8-) )
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."

aquamogal

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:54 pm

Re: What is the ultimate compromise ski?

Postby aquamogal » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:00 pm

Thanks so much for feedback I am 155 lbs and 5’6. I am along Lake Michigan - hoffmaster and going to ski ungrounded hiking trails about 12 miles and backcountry. Some of the trails are tight and twisty with fun ups and downs.
There are sand dunes and a local hill with rope towe. I started on 145 hoks last year and expanding the fun to learn some basic Tele.
I am not big on resorts in MI but make make it to one a couple times a year. If this next step is fun which i believe will be a blast may invest more into a
Resort type Tele set up with Ntn. I can really only keep one of these skis as I was also looking at backcountry set up just to tour the 12 miles of trails.
So these skis are really about finding hills to learn to Tele. To get to the dune I want to play on it’s about 1.3 miles of trail and the slope of the dune is about 60%.

User avatar
fisheater

Rank: XCD Pinhead
XCD Pinhead
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:06 pm
Location: Oakland County, MI

Re: What is the ultimate compromise ski?

Postby fisheater » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:13 pm

Hoffmaster??? Wow I never knew! I have skied Nordhouse and need toe ski Saugatuck. Quite a few Michigan skiers here. The Sbound will be fun to turn on. There are quite a few tele skiers at Caberfae, weekend season passes were $109 before 10/31. My son calls me old, but I have a hard time getting him to ski uphill. He needs lifts.
Would enjoy photos from Hoffmaster, closer to home for me

User avatar
t-$

Rank: XCD Pinhead
XCD Pinhead
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:29 am

Re: What is the ultimate compromise ski?

Postby t-$ » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:19 pm

another recruit for telefest???!!

and we should definitely hit nordhouse when we get some decent snow! yay for the mitten

aquamogal

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:54 pm

Re: What is the ultimate compromise ski?

Postby aquamogal » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:44 pm

fisheater wrote:Hoffmaster??? Wow I never knew! I have skied Nordhouse and need toe ski Saugatuck. Quite a few Michigan skiers here. The Sbound will be fun to turn on. There are quite a few tele skiers at Caberfae, weekend season passes were $109 before 10/31. My son calls me old, but I have a hard time getting him to ski uphill. He needs lifts.
Would enjoy photos from Hoffmaster, closer to home for me


Michigan !! Thanks for all the info, The rope tows are at mullagans hollow in Grand Haven the dune I am interested in is Hoffmater
Out my back door is North Ottawa dunes park
I also went 10cm shorter on sbound and now wonder if I should go with 179 or maybe the 98’s
Thoughts ? Also where would you mount the 3 pin on sbound for what I am looking to do?
Thanks !!

User avatar
lilcliffy

Rank: XCD KNIGHT
XCD KNIGHT
Posts: 1838
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada

Re: What is the ultimate compromise ski?

Postby lilcliffy » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:53 am

aquamogal wrote:Comparing the 169 Sbound crown to OAC 160 XCD GT, I am not able to keep both,
going to use asolo glissade 350 and 3pin with and with out cable,
The xcd gt seams stiffer than the sbound.
feedback on your thoughts, thanks


These are both a lot of ski for that boot.
The S-112 will be fine with that boot in deep soft snow.
The fact that the XCD GT is stiffer may not be a good thing - especially without a stiffer more supportive boot to drive it.

Don't know anything about the XCD GT- seems strange that it would not have a soft round flex...

I have skied the S-112 many times- it is VERY similar to the Karhu XCD Guide/Madshus Annum- though it is a bit stiffer than the Guide/Annum and has slightly rockered tips.

The XCD GT is wider underfoot- suppose it should offer more float- though the stiffer flex doesn't make much sense to me. Is the XCD GT torsionally rigid? The S-112 and Guide/Annum certainly are not.

What I do know is that the S-112- like the Guide/Annum- is an excellent deep soft snow Nordic touring ski- for gentle to moderate terrain. The S-112 is certainly not a downhill ski. They are miserable and all over the place on dense, consolidated and/or icy snow. My Annums don't come out unless the snow is ideal!

What is the snow typically like that you are going to ski on?

Difficult to choose the XCD GT without a good review/test or someone that has some real experience with it.

The removable kicker skin on the S-Bound is certainly more versatile than the permanent skin- and Fischer's Offtrack Crown is excellent, especially if you typically get a lot of soft, moisture-rich snow to ski on.
The permanent skin on the XCD GT is probably fine on cold dry snow, but I would think it wouldn't last very long on icy abrasive snow...

Either way, both skis are skis for deep soft snow. Do you have other skis for when the snow is not ideal?
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

User avatar
fisheater

Rank: XCD Pinhead
XCD Pinhead
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:06 pm
Location: Oakland County, MI

Re: What is the ultimate compromise ski?

Postby fisheater » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:01 pm

The S-112 is 78cm at the waist underfoot. The S-98 is 69cm at the waist. I purchased my S-112 paired with 3-pin Hardwire bindings and T-4 boots. My intent was to trail ski and ski at the resort with the same ski. I have since mounted an old alpine ski for the resort with the T-4. I also purchased a very stiff British Army surplus, leather boot, the Alico Ski March. I am providing the history so you have some context for my following comments. So while I can easily turn my S-112 in my stiff leather boots, I have a stiff, rigid boot sole, plus the HW binding is mounted on a riser plate giving me a little more leverage over that 78cm waist. My other more narrow waisted skis are mounted 3P cable flat on the ski and they ski well. Usually when I am trail skiing the cables are in my camel back.
First I am only offering my opinion. Since you asked, I think with your boots or Alaska's you will be better served by the more narrow waisted S-98. The only caveat I would offer is that Lilcliffy, whom is far more knowledgeable than myself prefers the flotation of the S-112. The S-112 may be more fun on a lake effect day at the dune. The S-98 will be easier to turn and be faster touring on the trails when things are firmer.
As for your mounting position question, my S-112 are the only skis I own, including old alpine skis in my rafters I have not mounted. All of my 3-pin bindings are mounted pins on balance point (BP) and perform well. I dug this thread up from a couple of years ago. It will offer good info, but probably more than you want.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1029&p=12383&hilit=Pin+line+S+98#p12383

My last opinion is to not order your skis shorter than Fischer's recommended size. That being said, I'm old and skied a lot of years (alpine) on 204-205 skis, family had me take off the first decade of the 2000's, and I still think of my 189's as short. Just remember, here in Michigan a lot of our fun is cruising on hilly up and down hiking trails. Longer skis are generally faster, and the early rise Sbounds will turn on the downhill. Remember that you know you best, it's usually better to follow you gut and be wrong, than to listen to some goofball online and have that advice be wrong.

Good luck, hope I helped more than I confused.

aquamogal

Rank: XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:54 pm

Re: What is the ultimate compromise ski?

Postby aquamogal » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:39 pm

lilcliffy wrote:
aquamogal wrote:Comparing the 169 Sbound crown to OAC 160 XCD GT, I am not able to keep both,
going to use asolo glissade 350 and 3pin with and with out cable,
The xcd gt seams stiffer than the sbound.
feedback on your thoughts, thanks


These are both a lot of ski for that boot.
The S-112 will be fine with that boot in deep soft snow.
The fact that the XCD GT is stiffer may not be a good thing - especially without a stiffer more supportive boot to drive it.

Don't know anything about the XCD GT- seems strange that it would not have a soft round flex...

I have skied the S-112 many times- it is VERY similar to the Karhu XCD Guide/Madshus Annum- though it is a bit stiffer than the Guide/Annum and has slightly rockered tips.

The XCD GT is wider underfoot- suppose it should offer more float- though the stiffer flex doesn't make much sense to me. Is the XCD GT torsionally rigid? The S-112 and Guide/Annum certainly are not.


yes XCD GT is stiffer and more torsionally rigid.

What I do know is that the S-112- like the Guide/Annum- is an excellent deep soft snow Nordic touring ski- for gentle to moderate terrain. The S-112 is certainly not a downhill ski. They are miserable and all over the place on dense, consolidated and/or icy snow. My Annums don't come out unless the snow is ideal!

What is the snow typically like that you are going to ski on?

West Michigan can vary greatly based on the winter. We see it all snow conditions here
Difficult to choose the XCD GT without a good review/test or someone that has some real experience with it.

The removable kicker skin on the S-Bound is certainly more versatile than the permanent skin- and Fischer's Offtrack Crown is excellent, especially if you typically get a lot of soft, moisture-rich snow to ski on.
The permanent skin on the XCD GT is probably fine on cold dry snow, but I would think it wouldn't last very long on icy abrasive snow...

Either way, both skis are skis for deep soft snow. Do you have other skis for when the snow is not ideal?


I am also looking at the traverse 78 and sbound 98 as another entry point into a backcountry ski in 179cm

User avatar
lilcliffy

Rank: XCD KNIGHT
XCD KNIGHT
Posts: 1838
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada

Re: What is the ultimate compromise ski?

Postby lilcliffy » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:45 pm

Well- I think you would love either the XCD GT or the S-112 when the snow conditions are ideal.
However- you are certainly not going to be able to drive either ski- at those waists- with that soft XC boot.
For example, I can ride wonderful round smooth turns on my Annum with soft XC boots, but I certainly cannot drive them. However- the "problem" with these skis is that if you mount a stiff downhill boot on them they just twist and crumple under the pressure- they are not torsionally rigid enough. I say "problem" because I really don't see it as a problem- they are wonderful XCD skis on soft snow and moderate terrain- and on such snow and terrain I don't need a stiff downhill boot anyway.

Again- I think you would love either of these skis on ideal snow and terrain- IME/IMO they are niche XCD skis.
BUT- I think that they will be miserable otherwise.

As far as the 98- you are considerably lighter and shorter than me- the 98 might serve for most of what the S-112 or XCD GT might.

You mention the 78 as well- the other ski to consider is the 88.

If are after just one ski to start I would focus on a ski that is best suited to the typical snow conditions you are going to be skiing on. If it is deep soft snow- then yes, 112/Annum/XCD GT (or- consider a true downhill ski instead- a lot more $$ though...) If the snow is typically going to be dense and consolidated then I would be considering a narrower, better tracking ski like the 78- or perhaps the 88.

The 78 or 88 are certainly going to suit your soft XC boots much better- especially on difficult terrain and snow...
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

User avatar
lilcliffy

Rank: XCD KNIGHT
XCD KNIGHT
Posts: 1838
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada

Re: What is the ultimate compromise ski?

Postby lilcliffy » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:01 pm

fisheater wrote:The S-98 will be easier to turn and be faster touring on the trails when things are firmer.

I have no doubt that the 98 will be easier to turn on consolidated snow- however, I am not convinced that the 98 is a better XC ski than the 112. It would have to be more cambered, stiffer and straighter for that to be true...
This could entirely be personal skier preference though- loads of people love the 98- I am not one of them.

Remember that you know you best, it's usually better to follow your gut and be wrong, than to listen to some goofball online and have that advice be wrong.

I second this advice! :D
Good luck, hope I helped more than I confused.

And I also second this feeling as well- hopefully I am helping you!

I may just be waay off base entirely- perhaps I don't know enough about the snow and terrain that you want to tour on.
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry


Return to “Telemark Talk Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests