Faster Backcountry Trail Ski

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fisheater

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Faster Backcountry Trail Ski

Postby fisheater » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:39 pm

Okay, although I'm in love with the downhill, most of my touring is trail oriented. So coming to this realization, and being that I seem immune to acting my age. I am looking for a go faster Trail outfit. I'm going NNN, I'm thinking Alaska's. Beyond that I don't know. These will not be rock skis, so they don't need to be as tough (or heavy) as my USGI skis. I am open to all suggestions, even waxless to which I have an aversion. I will be skiing short steep up and down hills. Some uphills are steep, if there isn't soft snow on the Trail sides even S-112's don't climb. I doubt these skis would come out with more than a foot, because I love downhills, but if I can go significantly faster than I go with Ski March Boots, 3 pins, and USGI's they could easily come out for my local tours if it is deep. Besides I can turn USGI's, and my greatest skill is I'm really good at falling. My trails rock on a mountain bike, now I want to go lots faster than my current set up. I have a new set of NNN-BC bindings in a box.
What would you do???

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lilcliffy

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Re: Faster Backcountry Trail Ski

Postby lilcliffy » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:47 pm

My Dear Friend Bob!
E-99 Tour/Gamme 54 BC
Double-camber true kick and glide- finely tuned for backcountry snow!
Plus dreamy open tips to rip down hill!
Welcome to to the Lightening Hillcountry Tour!

And yes- Alaska NNNBC!
(BTW- if all goes according to plan, I have a set of Gamme 54 BC in my near future).
Gareth
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Re: Faster Backcountry Trail Ski

Postby bgregoire » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:54 pm

Hi! Now you are talking my language! I love to go fast in the backcountry. Actually most of my skis are fast slim BC touring skis. I've got many models to propose but the basic message here is go as slim (light) and as long as you can (I personnally do not go beyond my recommend length or 200cm). I will get back to the skis but first, I'm a little concerned about your uphill. You know about skiing, so you know about climbing. They don't make it up there by themselves so you have to help them out. You can use technique, you can use wax and you can skins. I don't suggest you can get better grip AND speed overall with scales so I would avoid those.

Are you willing to pull out skins or half skins for the steeper uphills???

You can do magic with WAX. Using the right combination and extending the grip zone up to using the entire ski length depending on the steeps you're involved with can work wonders.

That's basically what I do, wax as well as possible according to my planned route and in order to avoid skins as much as possible. If in trouble, i can pull them out though for the steepest bits.

The Asnes USGIs are surely fine fast trailbreakers on the flats. But if you want to go faster, I suggest lighter stiff full cambered skis such as the Asnes Amundsen (so fast!), one of the Asnes Mountain race skis (probably faster still), or the Fisher E99 or E89s (very fast too).

Keep in mind I preder no skinnier than the Amundsen/E99 for uneven ground. The skinnier ones are great for wind exposed hardpack flats.

Did you say you can or can't turn the USGI? Do you even need these fast skis to turn easily? Gotta choose cause its all about compromise! To go real fast, all you have to do is tuck!

Helpful?
Last edited by bgregoire on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

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bgregoire

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Re: Faster Backcountry Trail Ski

Postby bgregoire » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:59 pm

Just like to add here that the TTurn bias (not a complaint!) of this site has mostly kept the Asnes Amundsen under the radar. The Amundsen is certainly the most popular ski of the Asnes line-up in Scandinavia, and there is surely good reason for it!

Sure the Gamme is new and its got titanal tip (and some rocker), but that, I hear, was mostly designed to better absorb shock while walking across Sastrugi in Antarctica. For gliding fast on hardpack snow, I would choose the Amundsen anyday over either the Gamme or even E99 (both of these are softer cambered).
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

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Re: Faster Backcountry Trail Ski

Postby lilcliffy » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:22 pm

Grip wax
Yes
Magic

Pretty sure Bob is all about grip wax

Ben is right- the Amundsen would be even faster!

But man I love open tips in hilly terrain!

I think I might hit the tree on the Amundsen...
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

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bgregoire

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Re: Faster Backcountry Trail Ski

Postby bgregoire » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:27 pm

That does sum it up LC.

And this?:

Pure speed overall: Amundsen
Speed + a little more "turns" go for Gamme

But if you got style and go wax, take either or and you are good to go! :lol:
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

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Re: Faster Backcountry Trail Ski

Postby fisheater » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:30 pm

Ben,
I hope you don't mind I call you Ben? I do not have any difficulty turning the USGI ski. I prefer wax to scales. In SE Michigan I find myself using red/silver wax more than I like. I really am thinking about X-skins for those conditions. My uphills are to short for skins, unfortunately they are too carved in by use to herringbone so I just half herring bone when needed ////. It's slower than a herring bone but the trails are too carved to flex a ski into that big of a reverse camber. It's lots of fun flying downhill on twisting banked turns. One of the reasons I want to go faster.
I saw at one time you were looking for a used S-112, I have one that I have skied hard, but it has miles left on it. If your Amundsen aren't to short for my 195lbs, and are X-skin compatible. I would like to discuss via PM. I know a pair of hard skied S-112 have much less value, than fresh Amundsen. I would be open to discussion. I could be open to outright purchase as well. I just started looking, Gareth threw me a curve by suggesting Gamme, I was expecting Ingstad or E-99.

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Re: Faster Backcountry Trail Ski

Postby bgregoire » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:54 pm

Bob!

I'm a little confused about what you mean by a herringbone and a half herringbone and reverse camber to spice it up. To me herringbone comes in many variants as I walk up, whatever works best works best. My trail skis do not reverse camber and you don't need a reverse camber to herringbone IMO, however a double camber certainly does impede a firm grip of the centre of the ski's edge.

Are you stating that you trails are super windy, narrow and steep? Like 5 feet wide at most? Cause that would certainly be a problem while herringboning (can i conjugate thus, cause i just did) 2m long skis. Good wax or half skins and the 2-step frontstep side glide dance should get you up.

I am no longer interested in the S-112 and have not been for quite a while. I have a full on light tele kit now (K2 Wayback 88), Fischer Boundless and my Gfriend's Annums. Ample wide fun for me.

Besides, I got a pair of Cecilies Skogs to play with now and I also have some old E99s WAX i got last year with heelocators! Its going to be a fun winter.

I love my Amundsen but I just have to live with the fact that I got mine too long. I'm 160lb butt naked and Asnes actually recommends a 187cm for my weight (Although if i had the chance I would snap up a pair of 194s)!!! I think 195lbs is just right for the 201s (check it out on their site). However, they don't have the skinlock. :cry:
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

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Re: Faster Backcountry Trail Ski

Postby lilcliffy » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:22 am

I suggest the Gamme 54 only because it at least appears so close to the current E99 to me- I have never seen the Gamme 54 in the flesh! Cannatonic has both skis I believe.

As far as speed- there was an Alaskan distance-racer that bought both the Gamme 54 and the Mountain Race and was surprised to find the Gamme just as fast (Anrothar?)

I suggest the Gamme 54 over the E99 Tour simply because of longevity. The performance of the E99 is second to none- high quality sintered base, perfect double-camber backcountry flex, and oh so light! The effect of the open Nordic-rockered tips is amazing- I can pounce on that ski and rip turns- though at 210cm the full turns are more Alpine in nature due to my lead ski being fully weighted! My E99s- despite having more camber- are actually easier to turn than my Combat Nato (and the Combat Nato is easier to turn than the USGI Combat). If I had to have one distance-oriented hill country ski it would be hard choice between the E99 and the Combat Nato. The Combat Nato is a deep snow machine, but the E99 is still stable in deep snow and oh-so-much faster once the snow is consolidated. In fact, the E99 is so much faster that I typically only use it when I am skiing alone because I get out so much further ahead than the Welsh-Irish ski commandos following me! (With the addition of a Gamme 54 I am thinking I can take someone else with me on a Lightening Tour!)

E-99 Tour Xtralite Easy Skin:
66-54-61mm
1.950kg (200cm)

Gamme 54 BC X-Skin:
68-54-61mm
2.080kg (200cm)

Amundsen BC X-Skin:
67-57-62mm
2.020kg (201cm)

There is no doubt in my mind that the Gamme 54 will be more durable than the E99- solid wood core, titanal re-inforcement, full-wrap steel edge...I am actually worried that I am going to break me E99 in two at some point burning a strip off the trail!

Gamme 54 and Amundsen in stock at Neptune!!
https://www.neptunemountaineering.com/s ... urer=ASNES
The pursuit of XCD balance: cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry

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fisheater

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Re: Faster Backcountry Trail Ski

Postby fisheater » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:45 am

Are you stating that you trails are super windy, narrow and steep? Like 5 feet wide at most? Cause that would certainly be a problem while herringboning (can i conjugate thus, cause i just did) 2m long skis. Good wax or half skins and the 2-step frontstep side glide dance should get you up.

Yes Ben, and you explained exactly what my trails are like, and how I handle those conditions. I think I would lean towards Anses, as I really like my Anses skis. I also have a pair of Mohair 45mm X-Skins. I purchased the X-Skins to go with my FT 62, however that ski is so tuned to soft snow where wax works so well, I think these mohairs will be best suited to touring on hardpack.
I wonder if titanal tips are good for touring over Sastrugi, would they make snowmobile tracks more bearable?
Gareth, I generally think longer is better. I am buying these skis for my local trails which are worn in, twisty, up and down. Last time I stepped on a scale, I was up to a whopping 195lbs, 88kilos by my conversion. However 88 kilos puts me pretty much in the center of the recommended weight for the 200 cm Gamme 54. My thought is while most times I might upsize a ski, this time I think I should follow Asnes' suggested size. In addition to light and fast, I am also hoping for grip on hard refrozen snow utilizing X-skin. I appreciate your thoughts Gareth.


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