Info on old model Fischer (brown) BCS 5 and Fischer Spider

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Underdog

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Re: Info on old model Fischer (brown) BCS 5 and Fischer Spider

Postby Underdog » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:08 pm

If you are concerned about length- can you access a shop where you could actually stand on a few sizes? If you want a ski like this to work there should be a very slight exposed "wax pocket" when you stand on them evenly, and it should not require you to make an extremely powerful fully-weighted kick to compress it. (If it requires a very powerful kick to close the wax pocket- the ski might be fine on dense snow- but, I predict you will slip on soft snow and should consider a shorter/softer ski).

I will try this method today with the two sets of skis that I have. It would seem that I will need a "helper" to measure the "pocket." When attempting this task, should I be on a hard floor or carpet? Would a "business card" be thick enough to measure or maybe a credit card? Should the length of the measured "wax pocket" extend the full length of of the waxless scales?
There are different methods shown on youtube and they tend to vary based on the type of ski, level of fitness of the user and type of ski conditions. Note: when I was measured for the 210cm Country Crowns (20+yrs ago) I was told extend my arm to the ceiling and my wrist determined my ski length).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIx0qshvUVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ9qM-f4hag
One local ski/bike/skateboard shop and odds are they are going pressure me into whatever is left on the shelf and I will cave under pressure only to end up back here again.

I did find some 200 cm E109's that are waxable. Fischer says the E109 is the widest model with a "traditional mid-stiff nordic camber" for efficient glide on flat and undulating terrain. "The E109 is the wider version of the classic E99 and offers the same ability to cover long distances effectively while the slightly wider 82-60-70 mm sidecut makes the E109 more stable and easier to ski downhill. The E109 has a small amount of "Nordic Rocker Camber" to help turn initiation, and full metal edges for effective grip on ice."
What is "traditional mid stiff Nordic camber" and does it differ from "mid stiff nordic Rocker Camber" and do I want a Nordic rocker if Woodserson is saying the Nordic Rocker is the issue with the 78's lack of glide.

Not sure if this Nordic camber meets lilcliffy's recommended double camber criteria:
- considering the terrain you want to ski on I do recommend a truly double-cambered ski that is designed to ski off-track.


I will look for some Fischer E99 Crowns locally.
they don't have that carry, that last bit of glide and reduces the kicks over a given mile. I blame their shortness and the nordic rocker. The 78's and 88's are very similar in flex and squeezing together, it's difficult to tell much difference, but overall they are nice skis. However the 205cm Fischer E99 Crown I have is definitely a fast ski over distance than the 78/88, and the Asnes Gamme 54 is the winner overall on all of them.
fischer 109.PNG

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Re: Info on old model Fischer (brown) BCS 5 and Fischer Spider

Postby Woodserson » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:44 pm

Nordic rocker gets better with a longer ski because there is more running surface. Even the Gamme's have nordic rocker. It definitely helps in soft snow, and lack of glide is not noticeable in these conditions. The less glide from nordic rocker is apparent in firm snow conditions.

The 109's are very nice, but those are Tour- a wax ski. so you'd have to wax and or use the kicker skin. Since you're in southern New England with wildly varying snow conditions that I am intimately familiar with, I'd look for a Crown ski IMO especially since you want a kit that you can go right out the door with minimal fussing. I love my Asnes and the mohair kicker skin but I love wax and I have the time to fiddle with my skis. Also, I've found the Asnes mohair to be faster than the Fischer EZSkin. YMMV.

200cm would be the bare minimum for you in the E99/109. I'm on 205's

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Re: Info on old model Fischer (brown) BCS 5 and Fischer Spider

Postby Underdog » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:23 pm

Would 199cm be short for a Snowbound Crown (77 - 61 - 69). Seems very close to a Fischer Traverse/78.
Skis longer than 200 cm do not seem to show up frequently at places like EMS and REI.
sboundcrown tech.JPG
sbound crown.JPG

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Woodserson

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Re: Info on old model Fischer (brown) BCS 5 and Fischer Spider

Postby Woodserson » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:36 pm

WOW where did you find that!?

Ok, a little sleuthing: 77 - 61 - 69

So basically the Sbound78/Traverse 78 but probably without the nordic rocker. That would be a great out-your-door ski. The 199 will make it fast and supportive. I would certainly take it for myself, and you should be even better on it...

EXCEPT, these were made during the years of the negative base pattern, right? Can you check the base? Is the base all p-tex (black) with the crown dremelled/pressed into the base? If this is the case it was a notorious pattern that caused lots of frustration with lots of slipping, bad gripping and ultimately Fischer revamped its Crown to the current clear Offtrack Crown which works very well. They did a very nice job on their new crown. I, personally, did not like their negative base pattern.

Underdog

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Re: Info on old model Fischer (brown) BCS 5 and Fischer Spider

Postby Underdog » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:00 pm

I did the length "grip test" on the 179 cm Spider 62 and the 210 cm Fischer Country Crown (20 ys olds).
On a hard, flat, level surface the Spider-62 was terrible, the crown traction base never lifts unless the ski is completely unweighted.
The Fischer Country Crown was much better in every way. With level/even pressure I could slide paper under most of the crown traction pattern with just a little drag behind the heel. Weight on the ball of one foot and the paper rips when pulling.
The good news, the 179 cm Spider-62 is perfect for the 11 year old 85 pound kid from next door who helped me with this test (but not his 14 year old brother who fared no better than I did). What is Fischer thinking?
Last edited by Underdog on Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Underdog

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Re: Info on old model Fischer (brown) BCS 5 and Fischer Spider

Postby Underdog » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:13 pm

Can you check the base? Is the base all p-tex (black) with the crown dremelled/pressed into the base? If this is the case it was a notorious pattern that caused lots of frustration with lots of slipping, bad gripping and ultimately Fischer revamped its Crown to the current clear Offtrack Crown which works very well.

I'll have to check on the "negative base." Not sure.
negative fish.JPG

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Re: Info on old model Fischer (brown) BCS 5 and Fischer Spider

Postby fisheater » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:14 pm

I think you guys did a great job with this thread. I am impressed, great information here. The only thing I could add is perhaps the negative pattern would be more pleasant to ski if it is used with kick wax. Iron Polar into the entire base, perhaps cork in warmer wax from the pattern forward when additional grip is required. It really doesn't take a lot of effort, and I can fit two tins of kick wax, a cork, and a scraper in one pocket of my soft shell.

Underdog

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Re: Info on old model Fischer (brown) BCS 5 and Fischer Spider

Postby Underdog » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:49 pm

Can you check the base? Is the base all p-tex (black) with the crown dremelled/pressed into the base? If this is the case it was a notorious pattern that caused lots of frustration with lots of slipping, bad gripping and ultimately Fischer revamped its Crown to the current clear Offtrack Crown which works very well.

Looks like this Snowbound has the "mountain crown" with negative patterns/designs that perform very well in warm, wet conditions (corn snow touring), while the newer "offtrack crown" pattern works better in two conditions: crusty, hard snow and cold, dry powder.(Really should have this statement in "quotes" because I know nothing about this and have no experience with either of these patterns).
negative mountain crown.JPG

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Re: Info on old model Fischer (brown) BCS 5 and Fischer Spider

Postby Underdog » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:12 am

Do skis with sidecuts (like the S-bound Traverse-78 and the E-109) track smoothly? Does the double camber of the E-109 (as opposed to the single camber S-Bounds) raise the sidecut off the snow surface during the glide phase so that the ski does not behave in a jerky (side-to-side) fashion? Is a ski with sidecut is going to track straight like the 210cm Country Crown. Will the S-bound Traverse-78 be squirrelier than the E-109 or my Country Crowns?
Lilcliffy talked about this here:https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=1196#p14775
nortic rocker.PNG

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Re: Info on old model Fischer (brown) BCS 5 and Fischer Spider

Postby Cannatonic » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:28 am

hey that's my picture up there! I actually like the old negative pattern better, the newer Offtrack Crown is too aggressive for me.

Being a dirt-bag ski bum at heart I always prioritize the bargain opportunities. I would buy those E109's, it's a killer price you won't find again. E99's are better for XC skiing, the E109 will be a little slower, but the E109 will have better flotation on days with uncompressed snow, and it's a good ski for downhill turns, 200cm is a good length, I actually have a few different pairs of skis in this profile, they're versatile and useful for almost anything.

If you keep looking you can probably find some Country Crowns for $100 on sale in the future and use those for pure XC missions, searching the internet in the springtime will usually yield a sale price on these.

ps...speak of the Devil! Look what I just found:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fischer-BC-Bac ... SwLgpcF7Xe


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