Transition from Telemark :(

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Robert
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Re: Transition from Telemark :(

Post by Robert » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:42 pm

Many thanks for the comments in this thread.

Woodserson and MSU Alum, together you’ve voiced my major concerns. I was hoping to hear from someone who has done something like I'm planning with the Hagan Off Limits — or something else with similar specs.

Woodserson, from your icon, I see someone ripping with speed and great form. I won’t be trying to follow you downhill! I really like your comment about high tips — especially for skinning in deep snow.

MSU Alum, I see that you ski in the Wasatch, and probably encounter lots of cold deep light power. Frankly, here on the wet coast, most of the time I’m on sweet spring corn, or a hard base with a couple of inches of fresh damp snow on top. Or sun cups. Or that crusty, grimy bumpy stuff under the trees in the spring. I do remember one midwinter day when we’d had a dump that was at least 18”. The best any of us could do (even on the fattest skis) was plow a trench that was over a foot deep. There was no support and the snow was heavy. After an exhausting couple of hours skinning up we we quit and headed for the pub. That’s rare.

Back when I arrived at Canada’s west coast (mid 90s), and didn’t know what I was doing but just wanted to be up on snow in the Coast Mountains, the local cross country guru sold me a pair of Tua 205s with NNN BC bindings and a pair of Alpina boots. Compared to the Bonna XC skis that I’d used in Manitoba (Canadian Prairie), I thought they were fantastic. But I wondered why I never could do tight telemark turns in the local hills. I did a lot of skiing (and a lot of falling) on the Tuas and I actually wore out those boots. I was inspired by Steve Barnett’s “Cross Country Downhill” and the telemark training videos by Dickie Hall and John Fuller.

Towards the end of that period I borrowed my daughter’s Karhu Catamount skis (they had the NNN BC binding). Those were only 157cm and the profile was 85-70-80. I loved the lightness and the shortness — and suddenly I could make short turns and venture out on much steeper slopes. That’s when I decided to abandon NNN BC and buy Scarpa T2s, a pair of K2 Telemark skis, and G3 telemark bindings. They’ve served me for over 15 years. Unfortunately, with my injured foot and lack of fitness (explained above), it is time for another change.

I’m also seeing sites that cater to people using short skis
https://www.outsideonline.com/1773711/a ... -hit-bumps
https://www.theshortskishop.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X5LYEDRWFE
https://skiboards.com/

I have until mid January to decide what I’ll do about skis. In the meantime, I’m beginning to work on fitness.

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Woodserson
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Re: Transition from Telemark :(

Post by Woodserson » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:07 pm

Robert wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:42 pm

Woodserson, from your icon, I see someone ripping with speed and great form. I won’t be trying to follow you downhill! I really like your comment about high tips — especially for skinning in deep snow.

I'm flattered, but it's not me it's a random picture out of World Cup Ski Technique by James Major & Olle Larsson that I had laying around when I made my account.

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Re: Transition from Telemark :(

Post by Woodserson » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:55 am

Robert wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:42 pm


I’m also seeing sites that cater to people using short skis
https://www.outsideonline.com/1773711/a ... -hit-bumps
https://www.theshortskishop.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X5LYEDRWFE
https://skiboards.com/

I have until mid January to decide what I’ll do about skis. In the meantime, I’m beginning to work on fitness.
A of these skis/ski boards mentioned above are really designed for frontside groomed skiing with relatively predictable snow conditions. The youtube video has some intriguing idea, though. I still think a 162cm KOM is the way to go if it'll be able to take the heel piece of an alpine binding. Worst case you could ski with tele equipment but not telemark, just parallel turn. (I understand this might not be possible depending on your injury status)

Another option is a fat ski but for junior/youth skiers. Johnny has a pair of Armadas with lots of rocker, fat, for kids, and he uses them like KOM's. This is an intriguing idea and it would 100% accept a locked-down heel piece. https://shop.armadaskis.com/en-us/youth/skis.html Look at the TANTRUM for instance... 100mm wide, rockered, short. The more I think about it, the more if I wonder this is the ticket for your specific issue.

In a similar vein, women's skis often come very short and will support an adult.

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Robert
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Re: Transition from Telemark :(

Post by Robert » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:46 am

Woodserson wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:55 am
Worst case you could ski with tele equipment but not telemark, just parallel turn. (I understand this might not be possible depending on your injury status)
Nope, the surgeon was quite clear about that. I may ski downhill or AT, but not telemark. Even I wouldn't trust me not to lift a heel if I could. My new hiking boots have to have very little flex, and the required orthotics constrain my foot.

Your mention of the Altai Kom, 162, sounds interesting. I'd never heard of them. I like the look of the high tip. Thanks.

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Re: Transition from Telemark :(

Post by Cannatonic » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:29 pm

Robert, sorry to hear of your orthopedic woes. I've been limited for years by various problems. I'm soon going to need bunion surgery on at least one foot to be able to ski. Not looking forward to it! If it doesn't work I may never be able to use ski boots again.

Doctors never really know what's going to happen - I'd be thinking wait until your recovery is complete & then decide what's going to work for you. I wonder if the XC skiing motion is that much worse than hard downhill turns. For me gentle XC skiing is much easier on everything than downhill turns. My most-used ski the last couple years is Asnes MT51.
“The disciples are drawn to the high altars with magnetic certainty, knowing that a great Presence hovers over the ranges. You were within the portals of the temple....to enter the wilderness and seek, in the primal patterns of nature, a magical union with beauty”
1931 Ansel Adams

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Re: Transition from Telemark :(

Post by fisheater » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:21 pm

Hello Robert,
I can’t help one bit with the AT boots or bindings.i wish you the best with that. I am attaching a link to Altai Hoks from this site. It is in the same class as the Hagen ski, but I believe it receives better reviews.

https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=939

I am with Woods and MSU in regards to attempting to ski downhill in steep terrain in what is not really a full bore ski.
I would point out that the boot and bindings combination are what really cost. If you’re in ski country, you can always buy a used ski. Also there are a lot of close out skis available in the spring.
My suggestion is to find the right boot/binding. Once you have the right boot/binding, and considering your preference is for a short ski. Find a ski with some titanal as part of the core, 80 to 90 mm underfoot, with generous sidecut, and a rocker, camber, rocker profile. Buy that ski as short as recommended for your weight. Then buy a pair of nylon skins to fit. Mind you this ski recommendation is all based on your desire to ski short.
My final suggestion is to practice with this outfit on some seasonally closed roads where you can get accustomed to the new gear in moderate terrain.
You have my best wishes. I am 58 and have been forced to acknowledge my mortality. I used to be super human and bulletproof, but those days have past. So while almost 20 years your junior, I can emphasize. You also have my respect and admiration. My “suggestions” while direct, are based upon 40 years on skis, and my desire to read glowing reports of your new gear.
I only ask that you post photos!
Regards,
Bob

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Re: Transition from Telemark :(

Post by FourthCoast » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:16 am

Hi Robert,

I do not have much to add about skis or AT gear. I would like to ask you one question about your surgeons orders. Did the surgeon say 'no tele' or something more like 'no skiing in bindings that do not release' ?

I have been through one round of orthopedic surgery myself. I was injured while using alpine gear. I am not sure if the bindings were old and not releasing properly or if I simply had the DIN cranked up too high.Either way the skis did not release.

Last year I started getting into tele with (very) used gear. I have decided that I wanted to keep learning to tele but I absolutely do not want to have more knee reconstruction or additional plates holding my bones together.

Last week I ordered my first piece of new tele gear -- Telebry release plates. I plan to ski them on the lowest setting while I learn.

Is there any chance your surgeon would be OK with you free heel skiing if you get a binding that can release? Or is the doctor convinced that telemark is absolutely more likely to cause injuries than alpine skiing?

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Re: Transition from Telemark :(

Post by Robert » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:40 am

FourthCoast wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:16 am
I would like to ask you one question about your surgeons orders. Did the surgeon say 'no tele' or something more like 'no skiing in bindings that do not release' ?...

...Is there any chance your surgeon would be OK with you free heel skiing if you get a binding that can release? Or is the doctor convinced that telemark is absolutely more likely to cause injuries than alpine skiing?
FourthCoast, the issue is telemark vs. AT. The concern is about the boot-flex of the tele vs. the support and stiffness of a downhill (or AT) boot. Binding-release is not an issue. The surgeon said I may walk but not run (or jump or do anything that is high impact), when I asked if I could ski (I guess she thought I'd be going to a lift-served hill) she said, "Yes." As soon as I added, "...telemark?" she was clear: "No!" I now wear stiff shoes with orthotics all the time. So, at this stage in my life I will no longer be telemarking, and I'm planning my transition to AT gear. The story of my injury is here: LisFranc Foot Injury, Chasing the Mastodon .

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Re: Transition from Telemark :(

Post by FourthCoast » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:33 am

Hi Robert,

I see now that you already answered my question in your first post. Thank you for taking the time to repeat it for me. I read the full story (and looked at the photos!) about why you now need rigid boots.

Please let us know how you like AT after you get your setup put together. I have to admit that the AT tech toes and heels look like marvels of modern engineering -- very low weight, no more connection between the boot and ski than is necessary, and a completely free pivot with only the boot lifting.

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