New BC XC skier lookin for tips!

This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
User avatar
Tom M
XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:01 pm
Location: Northwest Wyoming
Ski style: Skate on Trail, 3 pin Off Trail, Backcountry Tele
Favorite Skis: Fischer S-Bound 98 Off Trail, Voile V6 BC for Tele
Favorite boots: Haven't Found The Perfect Boot
Occupation: Retired
Website: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCam0VG ... shelf_id=1

Re: New BC XC skier lookin for tips!

Post by Tom M » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:43 pm

Lots of good advice in the above comments. I've made the transition from long narrow high camber waxable skis of the past decades to the more modern skis that I ski these days. While I enjoy a light fast ski on the flats as much as anyone, most of my offtrail ski setups are wider, shorter, and have less camber and more sidecut than traditional XC skis. The only waxable skis that I have are for groomed trails where aerobic speed is the primary purpose. I'm usually breaking trail, often uphill, in the backcountry, so I prefer waxless skis or skins. Other than the extra noise, waxless skis work fine on the downhill. Here is what I'm currently using for offtrail.

Rolling terrain, speed and efficiency is more important than downhill control
Fischer Traverse, NNNBC Binding, Alfa Skarvet Boots

Moderate terrain, good snow conditions, a few fun downhill runs
Fischer SBound 98, Voile 3-pin Cable binding, Rossignol BC X-12 Boots

Mountain terrain, deeper powder or more challenging snow, downhill is the main goal
Voile Objective BC, Voile 3 pin Cable Traverse Binding, Rossignol BC X-12 or Scarpa T2 Boots if challenging snow or terrain

Steep and Deep Mountain terrain
Voile Hyper V6 BC, Voile Switchback X2 binding, Scarpa T2 Boots

While I have the option of using the spring cable on two sets of skis, I'm not a big fan of the spring cable. The spring cable doesn't add much control if using plastic boots. When in soft boots, technique and finesse are more satisfying than relying on the cable. If I had to do it over again, I'd save a few bucks and just go for the regular 3 pin binding on the 98's and move up to the hardwire for the Objective's when using the T2's. I'd leave the hardwire at home when using the Objective's with soft boots.

Special note: Voile does not recommend or warrant the use of telemark bindings on the Objective or Hyper series skis.
Last edited by Tom M on Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
lilcliffy
XCD KNIGHT
XCD KNIGHT
Posts: 2294
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: New BC XC skier lookin for tips!

Post by lilcliffy » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:07 pm

Tom M wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:43 pm
The only waxable skis that I have are for groomed trails where aerobic speed is the primary purpose. I'm usually breaking trail, often uphill, in the backcountry, so I prefer waxless skis or skins. Other than the extra noise, waxless skis work fine on the downhill.
This is interesting because I much prefer grip wax to waxkess scales for all of my backcountry touring other than very early winter and full-on spring skiing. I find I get both better grip and glide and I can climb steeper slopes with grip wax than I can with scales.
Here is what I'm currently using for offtrail.

Rolling terrain, speed and efficiency is more important than downhill control
Fischer Traverse, NNNBC Binding, Alfa Skarvet Boots
Though I do have access to a Traverse- my personal pick for this context is an E-99-class ski- my personal favourite being the Asnes Gamme 54 BC. This could be a function of my moisture-rich snow though...
I too, have NNNBC mounted here.
Moderate terrain, good snow conditions, a few fun downhill runs
Fischer SBound 98, Voile 3-pin Cable binding, Rossignol BC X-12 Boots
Again- it may be difference in snow and/or I am heavier than you- I prefer the S-112 over the 98 for this skiing- and I prefer the Annum over both of them. But- my personal pick for this context is the longer, narrower- but more tip-rockered- Asnes Ingstad BC. I use NNNBC binidings and boots.
Mountain terrain, deeper powder or more challenging snow, downhill is the main goal
Voile Objective BC, Voile 3 pin Cable Traverse Binding, Rossignol BC X-12 or Scarpa T2 Boots if challenging snow or terrain
My Asnes Storetind Carbon is my ski for this context- I have the Voile 3-pin hardwire here with primarily a Scarpa T4 boot- though I also use an Alico Ski March boot on this ski. I will be testing a Crispi Lofoten boot on this ski.
(I also use my Altai Kom with the same boot and binding here- but at this time I prefer the Storetind). My preference for the narrower ski here may again be due to my moisture-rich snow...

(The 68mm waist on the Storetind is narrow enough that the most supportive NNNBC boots are actually enough for this downhill ski on good snow conditions. If I ever buy a Asnes Rabb 68, I will be trying it first with NNNBC.)
Steep and Deep Mountain terrain
Voile Hyper V6 BC, Voile Switchback X2 binding, Scarpa T2 Boots
I don't currently have a setup for this context- the closest is my Kom with 3-pin hardwire and T4...
The V6 is the ski I would currently choose though- I would also mount the SBX2 and I would really like to test the T2 vs T4 with this setup. As it is a downhill focused setup the T2 is likely a better choice.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

User avatar
lilcliffy
XCD KNIGHT
XCD KNIGHT
Posts: 2294
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: New BC XC skier lookin for tips!

Post by lilcliffy » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:32 pm

Jigz wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:00 pm
2) can someone explain a few of the common terms and acronyms I may find here? After doing a bit of reading I’ve found myself lost with some of the terms... what is camber and what does it do... etc.
This is a big topic- I suggest you read the TeleWiki pages- lots of explanations there of terminology.

To be brief- the function of camber:

Downhill skiing:
- effective edge- allowing one to carve a stable turn.

Cross-country skiing:
- kick and glide- allowing one to engage the traction zone and then release it when striding and/or gliding forewards.

The only purpose of double-camber underfoot is to produce a wax/traction pocket that maximizes kick and glide performance. Most double-cambered skis are designed for a groomed track, but there are double-cambered skis that are finely-tuned for backcountry snow- the legendary example being the Fischer E-99 (there are a number of other models in this double-cambered BC-XC class).

There are also "camber-and-a-half" skis that have a very low-profile second camber underfoot- improving there performance when climbing and turning- an also XC skiing in deep snow (at the expense of kick and glide on consolidated snow).
So far I have found myself looking at the Fischer S-Bound 98 and the Excursion 88s. I would either get a BC Magnum binding with appropriate boots, but have heard the 3 pin set up with t4s are more capable on the descent.
There are currently no NNNBC boots that offer the support and leverage of even the most distance-oriented Telemark boots like the T4. The T4 is a distance-oriented Telemark (i.e. downhill) boot- but it is certainly not a XC boot. You certainly give up XC striding performance for the downhill performance of the T4.

Personally, I only use my T4 when I am purely downhill focused and the snow is challenging- otherwise, I use softer, leather boots.

The best downhill skiing in my local area often involves significant XC skiing to reach it- hence my preference for the T4. If I had a mountain in my backyard I would be using an even more supportive boot for my downhill-focused skiing.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

User avatar
Jigz
XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:39 pm
Location: Okanagan/Kootenay
Ski style: XC BC

Re: New BC XC skier lookin for tips!

Post by Jigz » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:37 pm

I’d like to thank everyone for their wisdom and insight, and for taking the time to share with me.

Today I got out again with our small crew of 4. The old timers went out and bought new sets of Alpina Control E64 @ 195cm, waxless, with NNNBC binding. One of the men let me use his other set of skis (Mashus?) and traded with me throughout our jaunt. We gained a whopping 70m elevation 😅, a quick 5km loop, with speed on descent at 22kmh. I know these numbers are laughable, but again, I loved it.

As a noob, I can’t speak the appropriate lingo for topography and snow conditions. However - as others have shared, I am able to use discernment and draw conclusions based on their sharing.
Your continued knowledge is welcomed and appreciated.
D157E5AC-67E3-4153-AF2D-C5C2E651B41A.jpeg

User avatar
Leo Tasker
XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:50 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: New BC XC skier lookin for tips!

Post by Leo Tasker » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:37 am

I know these numbers are laughable, but again, I loved it.
That means you're doing it right :D
Also, I have serious beard envy from that photo!

User avatar
Jigz
XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:39 pm
Location: Okanagan/Kootenay
Ski style: XC BC

Re: New BC XC skier lookin for tips!

Post by Jigz » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:37 pm

Leo Tasker wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:37 am

Also, I have serious beard envy from that photo!

That moustache is over 50 years old... the beard has come and gone.... but I TOTALLY get it.

Post Reply