Cobbled down my Garmont Excursions

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paulk
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Cobbled down my Garmont Excursions

Post by paulk » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:46 pm

I cut a full inch off the plastic cuffs of my Excursions. I haven't skied them but they feel really good for kick and glide. I favor leather boots, but the Excursions are actually lighter than my double Alicos in the picture. So I gotta try them soon! XCD baby!

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Re: Cobbled down my Garmont Excursions

Post by bgregoire » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:02 am

Did removing those bits really make a difference for k&g? I think they might be missed when powering down a hill. By the way, pretty much anything is lighter than the Alico doubles.

Happy new year and enjoy the snow!
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

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Re: Cobbled down my Garmont Excursions

Post by connyro » Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:15 pm

Why do this to Excursions? Couldn't you just use leathers or loosen the top buckle for better K+G? I just don't get it.

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Re: Cobbled down my Garmont Excursions

Post by paulzo » Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:39 pm

Did similar cuff reduction on my Excursions; also cut down the tongue and shaved excess plastic anywhere I could, looking for weight savings. Then started skiing them without the tongues, which was the biggest weight reduction. Tried a couple different kinds of tape as tongue replacements to keep snow out of the boots; duct tape and red plastic stucco tape. Both worked okay. I found not much change in performance with the various modifications, but I am not much of a skier skill-wise.
I then proceeded to remove the cuffs entirely, and relocate the second buckle to attach where the cuff pivot was. Added a built-in gaiter to keep out the snow, and put the tongues back on. Worked okay, some loss of control for sure but much more flex for K&G and walkability, until I had to get out the crampons to climb up a steep ridge - then my ankles got severely beat up and bruised by the top of the shell.

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Re: Cobbled down my Garmont Excursions

Post by paulk » Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:57 pm

connyro wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:15 pm
Why do this to Excursions? Couldn't you just use leathers or loosen the top buckle for better K+G? I just don't get it.

Good question. The answer is I like the Excursions as a plastic alternative to my leather double boots, especially for overnighting. I tour much more than I seek turns,like 90/10. And I saw how low the cuff on T3 and T4's are and decided to try it with what I had. The snow is lousy in the southern ADKS now. Once I get out with the Excursions I'll see if it helped. Walking around the house, even tho it was an inch of cuff, they feel like another pair of boots now.

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Re: Cobbled down my Garmont Excursions

Post by paulk » Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:59 pm

paulzo wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:39 pm
Did similar cuff reduction on my Excursions; also cut down the tongue and shaved excess plastic anywhere I could, looking for weight savings. Then started skiing them without the tongues, which was the biggest weight reduction. Tried a couple different kinds of tape as tongue replacements to keep snow out of the boots; duct tape and red plastic stucco tape. Both worked okay. I found not much change in performance with the various modifications, but I am not much of a skier skill-wise.
I then proceeded to remove the cuffs entirely, and relocate the second buckle to attach where the cuff pivot was. Added a built-in gaiter to keep out the snow, and put the tongues back on. Worked okay, some loss of control for sure but much more flex for K&G and walkability, until I had to get out the crampons to climb up a steep ridge - then my ankles got severely beat up and bruised by the top of the shell.
That's some serious experimentation. Keep at it!

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Re: Cobbled down my Garmont Excursions

Post by paulzo » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:11 am

I`m probably done playing around with the excursions. Despite all the mods it it is still such a stiff, heavy boot compared to what could be. I find it frustrating that there is such a void between them and the beefiest NNN-BC boots or the fabric/leather 75mm boots. What i want lies midway and does not exist. I have been searching for some old Scarpa F1 race or carbons, thinking to mod those a bit and go TTS. But no luck finding any in my size (29.5). I am now mulling whether to go NNN-BC or get all rando race-ish with some Aliens or the like.

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Re: Cobbled down my Garmont Excursions

Post by Andy M » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:39 am

If you think the Excursion with your mods is still a stiff and heavy boot, don't bother looking for some old Scarpa F1s. They are heavier and stiffer than Excursions or T4s -- and there's not a not a lot to mod on them w/o rendering them nearly unusable -- but then you did that with Excursions, so, WTH, go for it :D

I have old F1s that I have used with both AT and TTS setups, but I hardly use them anymore since there are newer and better alternatives. BTW, in case you didn't know already, Scarpa shell sizing is such that 29.5 shares a shell with 30.0.

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Re: Cobbled down my Garmont Excursions

Post by paulzo » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:44 pm

Andy - All posted weights I have seen tell me that F1's, F1 races, and F1 Carbons are all lighter than excursions. I have never held a pair, so I have only hearsay regarding stiffness. I have heard there is a significant difference in flex from F1 to F1 race. And yes I have heard that Scarp does 29.5/30 where Garmont did 29/29.5. I have in hand a pair of T3 thermos that I am trying to sell for a friend; they are 30, and they are a bit big for me. Never having been able to try on a pair of the old F1's. I don't know whether the 29 or the 30 would be better - but it's a moot point since I have never found either size. I did try on a pair of the old F3's once, in a 30 - and that fit like the T3's do, and seemd about as stiff as the excursion or T3.
Do you still ski TTS, and if so what boots are you using for that?

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Re: Cobbled down my Garmont Excursions

Post by Andy M » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:31 pm

Here are my personally measured weights for F1s and T4s (for a pair, shell only):

F1 (28): 2348g
T4 (28): 2304g

I do not have Excursions, but from what I have seen online, they weigh about the same as T4s. Yes, the Carbon F1s may weigh a little bit less than the non-carbon versions (but from what I have seen online, the carbon version of AT boots like the F1 or TLT do not weigh much less than the non-carbon version, they are just stiffer), but mod'ing a carbon cuff is a lot more difficult than mod'ing a non-carbon cuff.

I mentioned the 29.5/30 issue, because I have to deal with the shell break issue in Dynafits, which break differently than Scarpas. I fit Scarpa 28 well, but in Dynafit I have a bit-long fit in 28.5 or a bit-short fit in 27.5.

Yes, I still ski TTS, but I prefer to use Scarpa TXs over the F1s. The F1s are lighter, but they require more futzing around because of the rear lever lock. If you are using TTS, you have to remember to lock the F1 rear lever down before flipping up the rear binding heel lever. This may seem like a simple thing, but it is a PITA in general usage -- e.g., if you want to unlock the cuff during a long, gentle downhill, you have to undo the heel lever first. And, FYI, w/o the F1 rear lever locked, you have very little downhill control (since the cuff and forward lean is completely unlocked), while with the TXs, you do some significant control with the forward lean lever disengaged, because the cuff is still buckled tight.

So, IME, the TXs are much easier to use for TTS. Unfortunately, they are not currently in production. Since my pair were very well used, I bought an extra pair before they disappeared. But what I would like to see (for TTS and NTN) is a new and lighter TX.

BTW, the shell weight of a pair of TXs (28) is 2943g.
Last edited by Andy M on Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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