Desperate for binding screw help

This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
Post Reply
User avatar
Greenhighlander
XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:30 am
Location: Cape Breton Highlands

Desperate for binding screw help

Post by Greenhighlander » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:50 am

Longtime lurker first time poster.

I just recently bought my first touring set up after saving up for a year. I purchased the skis from a place in France and asked them to pre drill the holes for me to mount my bindings. I have never mounted bindings before and the closest shop to me is a 4+ hour drive one way. So after a lot of reading I felt confident I could do it myself.
First problem I need help with is as I was screwing down the bindings I noticed I could not get the binding against the ski.With the screws as tight as I could possibly get them I was left with a gap between the binding and ski. Pic attached
After contacting where I bought them they said this was caused by extra material coming from the screw holes and I need to remove the bindings, get rid of the extra stuff and then remount. My problem is when I mounted them I put a drop of gorilla glue in each hole and it has hardened very strong. What is the best way to loosen up my screws?

The second question I have is how can I tell if the holes were drilled too far back on the ski ?

The skis are Alpina discovery 68 and the bindings are Rottefella NNN BC bindings

Any help is much appreciated . I am really hoping I did not just ruin a brand new pair of skis
IMG_7391.JPG
Cheers

User avatar
MSU Alum
XCD Pinhead
XCD Pinhead
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:33 pm
Location: Wasatch Back
Ski style: Old man - New school!
Favorite Skis: Rustler 10
Favorite boots: Crispi Evo
Occupation: Retired

Re: Desperate for binding screw help

Post by MSU Alum » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:50 am

Are the bindings held in with Philips screws or with Pozi's? If Pozi's, they are a bit harder to strip. I'd say carefully try to loosen them with a Pozidriv screw driver and see if it works. I suppose a little acetone around the screws to contact the glue might help. Or, heat applied to the screws might loosen the glue....maybe a soldering iron held to the screw itself. Just don't strip the screws trying to get them out!

As for positioning, does the ski manufacturer have any measuring info, or maybe contact the folks who drilled the skis and ask them how they determined where to mount? I'm guessing they asked for you boot size. REI sells them, so you could call them, ask to speak to someone in the shop, and run your questions by them.

User avatar
TomH
XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:27 pm

Re: Desperate for binding screw help

Post by TomH » Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:17 am

A good sharp initial twist with the driver well seated should break free from gorilla glue pretty easily, if not apply the soldering iron to the screw head to warm it, then try.

Once you get them out, you can probe the holes with a toothpick or the like to figure out hole depth. Then with the binding off the ski, stick the screws through it to see how much screw sticks out from the bottom to see if the holes are deep enough for the screws. Also, I don't know off the top of my head if that binding uses different length screws for different hole positions (some do), but that's also something to check to make sure you don't have a longer screw where a shorter one should be.

Also on the skis, check for volcanoes around the hole, as they can interfere with a binding sitting flat. If any of the topsheet material is sitting proud of the topsheet, file or cut off the raised material.

User avatar
Woodserson
XCD Guide
XCD Guide
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, and steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XC: Asnes Gamme 54, Classy Woodies
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Alaska
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Desperate for binding screw help

Post by Woodserson » Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:21 am

First, nothing is ruined. Second, get a Pozidrive #3.

I have mounted many NNN-BC bindings. This has happened to me in a few instances and it can be a combination of factors. The first and most basic issue is that perhaps there wasn't enough material taken away from the topsheet around the hole. You want a little countersink effect to help avoid the topsheet getting sucked up into a "volcano" which then can impede the binding from laying flat on the ski. If this is the case, the best thing is to now remove the binding, your glue should just break clean, if it doesn't use heat with a sodering iron. I wouldn't use acetone but that's just me. With a Pozi this shouldn't be a problem. With a clean sharp chisel knock off the volcano, and then screw back on. You probably DON'T have to remove any more material to prevent volcano since you just knocked it off. There is a balance to this, too much material gone will make for a weaker connection, a place to water to collect, not enough and you get the Volcano. Make sure the screw is clean with no old glue on it that will tear the wood. Again, heat helps remove glue, put the screw in a vice and heat it up and break off the old glue. When remounting turn the screw backwards until it clunks back into position in the old thread pattern and then tighten. (This can be difficult on the 2 main screws of the binding due to how they go through the plastic, but do your best.)

Another time I have seen this it is because the NNNBC binding frame is plastic and bends to the camber of the ski, and sometimes it gets locked where the tail and the nose of the binding are down firm but the two main screws cannot get tightened all the way down, like the binding is arching its back. It's best to install the three front screws first, but not tight, using the nose as a guide to make sure everything goes straight- then tighten the two main screws first, back and forth between the two, then lock down the nose, then the tail. This will help prevent the binding from arcing up over the middle where the 2 main screws are.

So sum up, unmount, clean up, remount and you should be good.

I had one pair of skis where this happened and I couldn't be bothered to fix it until a season later but your mileage may vary.

User avatar
Woodserson
XCD Guide
XCD Guide
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, and steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XC: Asnes Gamme 54, Classy Woodies
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Alaska
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Desperate for binding screw help

Post by Woodserson » Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:23 am

TomH wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:17 am
Also, I don't know off the top of my head if that binding uses different length screws for different hole positions (some do), but that's also something to check to make sure you don't have a longer screw where a shorter one should be.
Yes, great point Tom. The nose screw is shorter than the two primary screws. Make sure you didn't screw this up. (pun)

User avatar
Greenhighlander
XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:30 am
Location: Cape Breton Highlands

Re: Desperate for binding screw help

Post by Greenhighlander » Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:58 am

Thank you for the reply. It turns out they are pozi screws which explains why my phillips seemed to want to strip it as soon as lotsa pressure was applied.
With the proper pozi bit I was able to break my screws free without applying any heat.
From what I can tell after having the binding off is that the gorilla glue was what was causing the gap. I remounted with regular wood glue and it seems to fit right now.

Now to figure out if the bindings are too far back or not.

Cheers and thank you folks again for the help. :D

User avatar
Woodserson
XCD Guide
XCD Guide
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, and steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XC: Asnes Gamme 54, Classy Woodies
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Alaska
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Desperate for binding screw help

Post by Woodserson » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:19 pm

Greenhighlander wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:58 am


Now to figure out if the bindings are too far back or not.

Cheers and thank you folks again for the help. :D
Who drilled them, Telemark Pyrennes? They know their stuff.

My friend had some Alpina Discoveries and they were mounted kind-of back, it looked odd but they skied fine. Do the skis balance near the metal bar clamp?

User avatar
Greenhighlander
XCD Enthusiast
XCD Enthusiast
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:30 am
Location: Cape Breton Highlands

Re: Desperate for binding screw help

Post by Greenhighlander » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:32 pm

Yes it was Telemark Pyrennes and they do sell the same bindings so I figured they did it right. They do balance at the clip part. The reasons I was wondering if they were back too far is that they look like they are, plus there seem to be a slightly raised part on the ski that is the same shape as the front of my bindings that my binding is a few cm behind, and I did take them for a quick ski around my yard and I seemed to loose grip trying to go up even a slight incline that my regular xc skis would of gripped np.
I can say that these Alpina are much shorter and stiffer then my xc skis so maybe I just have to change my technique? I do plan on getting skins for next winter as skis will be my main transportation that also includes some significant climbs and hauling weight on the roughly 30km roundtrip.

Cheers

Post Reply