NNN BC - ski width

This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
User avatar
MartinF
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:51 am

Re: NNN BC - ski width

Post by MartinF » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:50 am

... all of which leads me to the issue of parallel, as opposed to tele turns with the Rossi BC 110s. A few thoughts and questions occur to me. Perhaps someone can help.

1) I want as much kick and glide as I can get. This would point to NNN BC, right?

2) But for turns, I also want the stiffest of non-plastic boots I can get. My Rossi BCX 10s are stiff, but BCX 12s with a carbon exoskeleton ought to be stiffer - the latter only being available for 75mm bindings.

3) If I'm only doing parallel turns, why would I need a cable and the associated mode changes? Wouldn't a Rottefella ST binding suffice?

4) Conversely: While the BCX 12s might be a little stiffer than my 10s, the NNN BC Magnum sole has grooves to fit the plates and increase stability. When using parallel turns, wouldn't these do a lot to offset the difference in stiffness between the two boots?

User avatar
bgregoire
Posts: 1282
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:31 am
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring with lots of turns
Favorite Skis: Fisher E99, Åsnes Ingstad & Cecilie, K2 Wayback 88
Favorite boots: Crispi Sydpolen, Alico Teletour & Alfa Polar
Been liked: 1 time

Re: NNN BC - ski width

Post by bgregoire » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:37 am

All of this in the context of less than perfect snow conditions.

In powder, things could be different.

There is a reason why Alpine ski setups include locked-in heels and uber stiff boots that go way up to the calf.

Look into the reasons why that is so given you experience with alpine skiing. The answers should help you understand why people like myself may recommend a more active binding and boots that are stiffer at the sole and provide better ankle support for xcd.

Keep in mind the 3-pin cable binding offers versatility. Its both a basic 3-pin binding (like the ST) AND a cable binding. Great for experimentation and relatively cheap.

To me it sounds like you have already made your decision with NNN-BC and Rossi BCX 10s. Just go and have fun with them. If after a while, you feel like they are unsufficient, teturn to this thread, reread, and reconsider.

Experience is key. Rodb is right.
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

User avatar
MartinF
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:51 am

Re: NNN BC - ski width

Post by MartinF » Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:45 am

bgregoire wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:37 am
To me it sounds like you have already made your decision with NNN-BC and Rossi BCX 10s. Just go and have fun with them. If after a while, you feel like they are unsufficient, teturn to this thread, reread, and reconsider.
No... my mind ain't made up. :-) The Rossi BCX 10s are for my narrower XADV skis. I'm prepared to buy an additional pair of boots for the wider Rossi 110s, and these would be 75mm boots - necessitating the appropriate bindings.

The only thing I don't understand is the function of the cable when the turns are parallel. That's why I am asking for help.

(Learning tele is another matter. I would love to do so. But my priority is to get out and try these skis as soon as possible, hence using alpine turns.)

User avatar
bgregoire
Posts: 1282
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:31 am
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring with lots of turns
Favorite Skis: Fisher E99, Åsnes Ingstad & Cecilie, K2 Wayback 88
Favorite boots: Crispi Sydpolen, Alico Teletour & Alfa Polar
Been liked: 1 time

Re: NNN BC - ski width

Post by bgregoire » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:13 am

MartinF wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:45 am
The only thing I don't understand is the function of the cable when the turns are parallel. That's why I am asking for help.
It will stiffen up the boot/binding complex. Provide you with more lateral stiffness, more power. Remember you Rossi X12 sole is rubber. You'll have to try it out. If you don't like it, remove the cables in 15 seconds and enjoy the 3pinbinding cable free.
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

User avatar
MartinF
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:51 am

Re: NNN BC - ski width

Post by MartinF » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:20 am

bgregoire wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:13 am
It will stiffen up the boot/binding complex. Provide you with more lateral stiffness, more power. Remember you Rossi X12 sole is rubber. You'll have to try it out. If you don't like it, remove the cables in 15 seconds and enjoy the 3pinbinding cable free.
Thanks! That means I'll probably get cable bindings.

User avatar
rongon
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:09 pm
Location: Lower Ice Coast
Ski style: Wanderer - XCD, telemark - Never have alpined...
Favorite Skis: Fischer Rebound, Madshus Annum, Voile Vector BC, Dynastar Legend 3800, Dynastar Cham 97 HM
Favorite boots: Asolo Extreme, Crispi CXP
Occupation: I work to live

Re: NNN BC - ski width

Post by rongon » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:49 am

I still have both leather and plastic (2 buckle) telemark boots.

The cable question is a good one.

What I've found is that with plastic boots, even something as soft and touring oriented as the Scott Excursion, the cable in the Voile 3-Pin Cable binding does not make much difference. The plastic boot provides good torsional rigidity, and the cable doesn't add enough stiffness to be much noticeable in that case.

However with leather boots, which have more flexible soles, the cable can make a big difference. The softer the boot, the more difference the cable will make.

My experience only, so you know, your experience may be different.

-

User avatar
bgregoire
Posts: 1282
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:31 am
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring with lots of turns
Favorite Skis: Fisher E99, Åsnes Ingstad & Cecilie, K2 Wayback 88
Favorite boots: Crispi Sydpolen, Alico Teletour & Alfa Polar
Been liked: 1 time

Re: NNN BC - ski width

Post by bgregoire » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:38 am

rongon wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:49 am
What I've found is that with plastic boots, even something as soft and touring oriented as the Scott Excursion, the cable in the Voile 3-Pin Cable binding does not make much difference. The plastic boot provides good torsional rigidity, and the cable doesn't add enough stiffness to be much noticeable in that case.
I bet if you crank the activity of your cable bindings up more than you are used to with plastics, you will notice quite a difference.

Be careful out there.
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

User avatar
MartinF
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:51 am

Re: NNN BC - ski width

Post by MartinF » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:16 am

rongon wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:49 am
What I've found is that with plastic boots, even something as soft and touring oriented as the Scott Excursion, the cable in the Voile 3-Pin Cable binding does not make much difference. The plastic boot provides good torsional rigidity, and the cable doesn't add enough stiffness to be much noticeable in that case.
Thanks... I'm starting to understand cables a bit better, now.

Given a (theoretical) identical boot for both binding types and focussing on parallel turns for the time being: You gain stability from the cable on 75mm. You could also gain stability from the sole/plate connection with NNN BC. But you can't have both. I still wonder how those two sources of stability compare when the turns are parallel.

Probably a fairly unanswerable question... I know.

User avatar
bgregoire
Posts: 1282
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:31 am
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring with lots of turns
Favorite Skis: Fisher E99, Åsnes Ingstad & Cecilie, K2 Wayback 88
Favorite boots: Crispi Sydpolen, Alico Teletour & Alfa Polar
Been liked: 1 time

Re: NNN BC - ski width

Post by bgregoire » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:13 am

The NN-BC plate only provides good contact between the heel and the binding when the heel is fully compressed (flat).

The cable adds more rigidity to the boot/binding complex AND actively pulls the heel back down, helping you keep that heel compressed on the ski.

So, like I said in the beginning, in perfect snow conditions, either could do well. But when things get bumpy, uneven with mixed snow conditions, there is no doubt in my mind that a 3pin cable will improve ski control, telemark or parallel.
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

User avatar
lowangle al
Posts: 1394
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:36 pm

Re: NNN BC - ski width

Post by lowangle al » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:02 am

The thing that cables do for me is give me more control over an unweighted ski, like during turn transitions. Without the cable I only get edge control when the ski is weighted, with cables I get edge contact throughout the turn. It leads to smoother turns for me. You probably won't feel it as much parallel but I think it will help keep your skis under you in deep powder and will also help with getting a little air.

To feel what it does, stand on one ski and try to control the other ski with and then without the cable and you should see a difference.

Post Reply