The most supportive leather 75mm boots commonly available now?

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Roelant
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Re: The most supportive leather 75mm boots commonly available now?

Post by Roelant » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:15 am

Gregoire,
They have (had?) the Crispi Bre at a local department store. I have not been there for 2 weeks and usually around this time they replace the ski stuff with bike stuff. So it may have to wait until next winter, fair enough; we are in the 4-seasons in a day period anyways.

The Andrew St Moritz is apparently out of stock in my size (46). They have the Artico but that seems substantially heavier.
Noted the comment about the Excursions, but they appear to not be sold in Norway.

Which bindings would you recommend? I see the Voile Hardwire, the Voile Cable and the Rottefella 75mm (with cable).
As the cable is removable, i imagine it could be a nice option for the longer descents.
The Rottefella has perhaps a slightly wider compatibility from my reading here?

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Re: The most supportive leather 75mm boots commonly available now?

Post by Inspiredcapers » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:19 am

bgregoire wrote:A few pointers:

- The Alico Ski March might eat up your feet like soft butter. They can be terrible if you are prone to blisters. Take good care breaking them in. It could take weeks. They have a super stiff sole but not much support above the ankle.
I had this problem as well until I bought a pair of good insoles- the difference is night and day. More comfortable, more control, no blisters. Breaking them in took a season but now they’re great for rolling terrain excursions.

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Re: The most supportive leather 75mm boots commonly available now?

Post by fisheater » Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:46 pm

I wore my Ski March for the month of October on my 2-3 mile dog walks. Then it snowed and I went skiing. However I live a charmed life. Fish seem to like me. For some reason why the women didn’t realize what a charmed life I lead. It took years for me to understand all the trouble I avoided ;)

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Re: The most supportive leather 75mm boots commonly available now?

Post by bgregoire » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:31 pm

Roelant wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:15 am
Which bindings would you recommend? I see the Voile Hardwire, the Voile Cable and the Rottefella 75mm (with cable).
As the cable is removable, i imagine it could be a nice option for the longer descents.
The Rottefella has perhaps a slightly wider compatibility from my reading here?
For a Rabb or narrower and leathers, I'd be happy with the Voile 3pin cable. The Rottefella 75 with cable is a very new binding. Only a couple of most members at most here have tried it. I wonder how easy it is to remove and install the wire and how stiff it is.

The 3pin cable is tried tested and true.
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

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Roelant
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Re: The most supportive leather 75mm boots commonly available now?

Post by Roelant » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:12 am

Woodserson wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:50 am
The Nansen doesn't have the rocker the Ingstad has, which is why he may have been a having an easier go at it, less edges to catch the ice if you're not skiing straight.

I totally recommend the FT62 + Alaska 75mm. That's a dreamy combination. Love mine. Asnes nailed this ski.

I like the Rabb too, but in a shorter length than I can get away with in the FT. The FT62 in a 188cm skis as well as the Rabb in a 180, or vice versa depending on how you want to approach this. But I am not too fond of the Rabb 188cm in leather boots. So take that for what it's worth. I don't know why, I can't explain it.
Yes that is also what I think regarding the Nansens.
I have not skied with Alaskas, but tried the BC version on my foot. Compared to Crispi Stetind the shaft was stiffer than the Stetinds, yet the sole was definitely less torsionally rigid. From people's description here it seems like the 75mm version is better.

Anyways I will start off trying the Ski March, it is in transit which takes longer now (far less transport than usual).
As for skis, it looks like I will probably go for a FT62. I still want it to be an XC ski.
bgregoire wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:31 pm
For a Rabb or narrower and leathers, I'd be happy with the Voile 3pin cable. The Rottefella 75 with cable is a very new binding. Only a couple of most members at most here have tried it. I wonder how easy it is to remove and install the wire and how stiff it is.

The 3pin cable is tried tested and true.
According to an interview with the Rottefella product manager in UTE magasinet:
https://www.utemagasinet.no/turutstyr/n ... rottefella
The binding mates with longtime produced parts from the Cobra and the Super Telemark bindings with weaker springs to match leather shoes.
Weights: Rottefella ST without / with cable = 0.37 / 0.94 kg (one unofficial source only for the weight; short cable variant)
Voile Mountaineer without / with cable = 0.44 / 0.81kg
Voile Hardwire = 1.29 kg
In Norway Rottefella bindings can be bought in most sports shops.
IF the cable is easy to put on or off this sounds like a good option for a ski like the Falketind, running without cables at somewhat lighter weight, and the slightly more weight for downhills is probably not an issue.
I am more wondering about compatibility etc. Some boots seem to not fit in one or the other binding?
Here is a manual for the Rottefella Cobra which has an illustration on how to remove the cables. Seems straight forward enough, but you need to remove the boots from the bindings:
https://rottefella.no/media/pdf-manuals ... bra-R8.pdf
Here both the Voile cable and the RST+cable are about the same price. The Voile hardwire is quite a bit more expensive here, and far heavier, which rules it out.

Question - are Voile Traverse plates compatible with Rottefella bindings? Are the screw patterns identical? Not sure if I would like the rise, but I am giving it some thought for the heel support (and cable stowage possibility)
fisheater wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:46 pm
I wore my Ski March for the month of October on my 2-3 mile dog walks. Then it snowed and I went skiing. However I live a charmed life. Fish seem to like me. For some reason why the women didn’t realize what a charmed life I lead. It took years for me to understand all the trouble I avoided ;)
Thanks for the tip. I don't have a dog and the cat doesn't like being walked, but I'll figure out a way of breaking these in. Perhaps using them for their other intended use (marching?)
I have more luck with women (well, the one that matters anyway) than with fish lately. Last time I went fishing I just caught lots of little sharks (spiny dogfish, illegal to land in Norway).
Inspiredcapers wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:19 am
I had this problem as well until I bought a pair of good insoles- the difference is night and day. More comfortable, more control, no blisters. Breaking them in took a season but now they’re great for rolling terrain excursions.
I will look at that, thanks for the tip.

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Re: The most supportive leather 75mm boots commonly available now?

Post by Woodserson » Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:23 am

Roelant wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:12 am


According to an interview with the Rottefella product manager in UTE magasinet:
https://www.utemagasinet.no/turutstyr/n ... rottefella
The binding mates with longtime produced parts from the Cobra and the Super Telemark bindings with weaker springs to match leather shoes.
Weights: Rottefella ST without / with cable = 0.37 / 0.94 kg (one unofficial source only for the weight; short cable variant)
Voile Mountaineer without / with cable = 0.44 / 0.81kg
Voile Hardwire = 1.29 kg
In Norway Rottefella bindings can be bought in most sports shops.
IF the cable is easy to put on or off this sounds like a good option for a ski like the Falketind, running without cables at somewhat lighter weight, and the slightly more weight for downhills is probably not an issue.
I am more wondering about compatibility etc. Some boots seem to not fit in one or the other binding?
Here is a manual for the Rottefella Cobra which has an illustration on how to remove the cables. Seems straight forward enough, but you need to remove the boots from the bindings:
https://rottefella.no/media/pdf-manuals ... bra-R8.pdf
Here both the Voile cable and the RST+cable are about the same price. The Voile hardwire is quite a bit more expensive here, and far heavier, which rules it out.

Question - are Voile Traverse plates compatible with Rottefella bindings? Are the screw patterns identical? Not sure if I would like the rise, but I am giving it some thought for the heel support (and cable stowage possibility)

It's straightforward to take them on/off the Cobra's with a little practice but yes, if it's the same system of attachment to the binding you're going to have to take your boots out. Maybe it comes with a riser like the Voile's so you can clip them behind the heel riser? For what it's worth, my Voile cable never stays put behind the riser anyway (the hardwire does) but I don't mind too much for short up and downs.

The Hardwire is not necessary for the FT62, a cable is plenty sufficient.

Yes BUT: the Traverse plate accepts the standard NN binding mount of 75mm bindings. So the hole pattern is the same between the Voile binding and the Rott ST. HOWEVER, the plate has a little lip on the back end to catch the binding on the rear of the binding and provide a landing platform for your ball-of-foot. I just measured mine and the Rott ST is a hair longer than the Voile, it might fit or it might be a little tight and you might have to grind the riser back a bit. The taller Hardwire riser (as opposed to the Traverse Riser) has 5mm more space behind the binding.

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Re: The most supportive leather 75mm boots commonly available now?

Post by Rodbelan » Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:18 am

There is no compatibility problem per se; all 75 mm NN will fit in both bindings...BUT, some thinner duckbill will fit better in Rotte ST 3 pin binding than in the Voile's one. For instance, I have a leather boot that needs to be click in the third position to have a secure fit in the Rotte ST; in the Voile, in the 3rd click, it is still wiggling... To make things more complex, some earlier version of Voile 3 pin were accepting securely the thinner duckbill boots... Whatever. I made a little shim with mine, between the boot and the binding out of neoprene. It works great but it will not live for ever; i'll have to find another material...
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Re: The most supportive leather 75mm boots commonly available now?

Post by Nick BC » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:48 pm

As Woods says the Rottefella is a smidgen longer than the Voile. When I mounted the Rottefella cable on a Voile Traverse shim I had to grind the pad a bit to get the three pin to fit. The cables/hardwire are very easy to get on and off.

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Re: The most supportive leather 75mm boots commonly available now?

Post by bgregoire » Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:23 pm

Roelant wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:12 am
I am more wondering about compatibility etc. Some boots seem to not fit in one or the other binding?
You are right, there are, or at least used to be some small compatibility issues between some 75mm soles and bindings. This has only occured to me once, between a probably 15 years old pair of Crispi Sydpolens from Norway and a Voile 3-pin binding. If you measure out for the Rottafella ST and Voile 3 pin "cages", there are some slight differences. I believe the Rotta is slightly larger. The Crispis I have were ground just perfect to fit in the Rottas but not the Voiles. I'm guessing they were made before Voile binding became common in Norway? Anyways, all I had to do was to visit the cobbler with my the boots and Voile bindings. He slowly ground the front sides of the boot down so they could just fit the Voiles. Tada.

Norwegian welted boots are handmade and the actual shape of the Vibram Ferret sole is hand ground. No probs.
Last edited by bgregoire on Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The most supportive leather 75mm boots commonly available now?

Post by connyro » Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:33 am

fisheater wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:28 pm
connyro wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:25 am
Why not try using light plastic boots like Excursions if you are looking for more dh control? They weigh about the same as heavy leathers and perform well for both k+g and dh. Plus they are waterproof and warm!
Connyro, I have both T-4’s and Alico Ski March boots. While the T-4 is more powerful, the Alico Ski March has a stiff sole and is very powerful in it’s own right. I have had the sole in the Ski March get torqued a bit by chopped up resort crud, but that is really one of the few times I wanted to go to the T-4. I need to put some time with 86 mm underfoot to see how the Ski March handles that width.
The Ski March is more comfortable to tour with, and more efficient to kick and glide with. You have much more ankle flexibility with the Ski March. For me that ankle flexibility has not affected my ability to make turns with this boot. It matches nicely with my FT 62, and easily overpowered the S-112

Conny, are you still skiing? I’ve already had the canoe on Lake Michigan for early season coho, down here. I miss skiing, but I make the most of what’s available.
Hey Fishy! In my experience, the Excursions, once 'broken in' feel pretty soft and do allow for a good feel for the snow while retaining their waterproof and warmth. I don't care as much for ankle flexibility as I do for all day comfort and dh usefulness when spending a day touring around in the hills/woods. Yes, still skiing up here! We had a dump of 1.5 feet of wet gross snow on monday which screwed up the good corn we had previous. A little warmth the next few days should whip the snow into good conditions. Another very long and snowy albeit warm winter up here.

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