Looking for Wax Selection Advice

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Stephen
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Looking for Wax Selection Advice

Post by Stephen » Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:28 pm

I'm starting from scratch on a waxing "kit" and wonder what others think of what I came up with (below).
Comments on additions / subtractions / alternates.
For use on Asnes MR48s and Nansen wax skis in Rocky Mountains.
Seems like a lot of stuff, and way more than I used "back in the day."
(Multiple waxes for tricky conditions around zero degrees C is partly responsible for number of waxes.)
That said, mostly on sale and totaling about $130, so, for what it does, not TOO bad.
Also interested in thoughts on the VR line?
It's on clearance and I don't see it on Swix's website.
Wonder if it was too complicated/expensive for Swix to certify the Fluorinated formulation?
I think that it is discontinued is the reason it's on sale.
(I have rationalized the number of waxes by thinking that I could cut it by 2 or 3, but only save $20 or $30 bucks.)
Anyway, any thoughts are welcome.
Thanks
_______________________________________
Swix Base Cleaner Liquid -- (Paint thinner instead???)

Swix Natural cork (Soft waxes)
Swix Synthetic Cork (Hard waxes)
Swix Scraper 4 mm
Swix T162B Brush rect., medium bronze

Swix VG35 Base Binder Green -1C/-22C
Swix KX20 Green Base Klister

Swix F4 Premium Cold Glide <-4C
Swix Skinivoide (skin wax for X-Skins)

Swix VR30 Light Blue Fluor -7/-20C
Swix VR40 Blue Fluor -2C/-8C
Swix VR55N Violet Fluor +2C/0C
Swix VR62 Klisterwax Fluor -2/+3
Swix VR65 Red Yell.Silv.Fluor 0/+3C
Swix VR70 Red Fluor +1/+3C

Swix K22N Klister -3C/+10C (Universal)

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fisheater
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Re: Looking for Wax Selection Advice

Post by fisheater » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:18 pm

http://web.archive.org/web/201510021509 ... rtbag.html

My first piece of advice is to read Dave’s advice.

My 2nd piece of advice is read Lilcliffy’s waxing advice, with special regard to using Swix Polar as a base. I will admit I only cork in my polar. I’m cheap, seems like the iron would waste wax. My advice would be to follow Lillcliffy’s methods. Many people here do just that.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2172


My third piece of advice is that if you’re at the temperature range for Swix Red, use red/silver. It isn’t as gooey as Klisterwax but it works in the temperature range on the tin. I have not been pleased with red in my snow conditions in SE Michigan

Lastly if you are slipping, you then go to a warmer wax and stick. Don’t scrape, just put the colder wax over the warmer wax. When it works, it really works. If it doesn’t, you were going to scrape wax and start over anyway

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Roelant
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Re: Looking for Wax Selection Advice

Post by Roelant » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:30 am

Im not really a waxing expert and am for now just using waxless touring skis, after not being very successful in a couple of trips with grip wax.
For XC track skis however, I bought a set of Toko grip wax sticks on sale, and it seems to me that the temperature range is a bit wider for each color, which makes it easier for me as a beginner waxer. Also makes for less different ones to carry along. Furthermore I find the "deodorant stick" format easier and tidier to use. Making waxing more accessible was key for me (but I still use Redster skintec track skis most often).

That said, those SWIX fluorinated waxes you mention are supposed to be really good performance wise.

One thing you seem to be missing from that selection is a cylindrical scraper, to clean out the central groove.

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Cannatonic
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Re: Looking for Wax Selection Advice

Post by Cannatonic » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:14 pm

whoa, way too complicated! You only need a few tins. You don't need basebinder. Fluorinated wax means rubbing a potent carcinogen onto your bases, there's no reason to use it for touring IMO.

I would suggest Swix Green, Swix blue extra, Swix Violet Special to start. You can use Swix Green or Polar as a base-binder. If you're not racing you don't need all this extra stuff IMO.

I like Rex waxes and have pretty much switched to them instead of Swix. Rex makes an excellent all-purpose "Pine Tar Universal" wax that makes things even more simple. I would skip the klister and red waxes, these will make your life a nightmare!! :lol: :lol: use the x-skins instead
"All wisdom is to be gained through suffering"
-Will Lange (quoting Inuit chieftan)

Stephen
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Re: Looking for Wax Selection Advice

Post by Stephen » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:50 am

I cut out the 62 and 70, since I had a lot of overlap in the close-to-zero range.
Couple of comments about using Polar as a base, but if I’m buying Polar, why not just buy and use a purpose-specific base binder like the VG35?
I read through a lot of Dave’s stuff (which I had already found and read before) and think I’m pretty close to where he’s coming from.
I’m not looking for the least-effort solution (I would have bought no-wax skis if I was) and don’t mind spending the time to get a well-waxed ski — that’s part of the fun for me.

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Woodserson
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Re: Looking for Wax Selection Advice

Post by Woodserson » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:17 am

Stephen wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:50 am

Couple of comments about using Polar as a base, but if I’m buying Polar, why not just buy and use a purpose-specific base binder like the VG35?
Because Polar can be used double-duty-- base binder/glide wax and 0deg temp grip wax.

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lilcliffy
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Re: Looking for Wax Selection Advice

Post by lilcliffy » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:44 pm

A few thoughts-comments-

Fluorinated wax is toxic- seriously toxic- and it is not biodegradable, it is acutely toxic and it is an environmental toxin.
I don't like to preach- but I am going to ask you not to use it- ever.
Fluorinated waxes will be banned- I am confident about this- the EU is almost there (if they haven't already done it and I missed it as I turned off my radio over the last several months...)
PLUS- the terrain, micro-terrain, and snow conditions are so variable in the backcountry- I don't see how you could possibly unlock the performance advantages of a fluorinated wax when Nordic touring-
YOU'D NEVER GET ANYWHERE MAN- YOU WILL SPEND ALL YOUR TIME MESSING WITH GETTING IT RIGHT.

My primary advice is to be a belligerent determined user of hard grip wax- extend it; thicken it; iron it- do everything you can think of before you move to a softer wax.

Grip wax is pure Nordic magic man- the ultimate elixir for complete Nordic ski touring in the backcountry.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

Stephen
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Re: Looking for Wax Selection Advice

Post by Stephen » Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:50 pm

lilcliffy, I hope your blood pressure is back to normal by now!
:)

I’m not attached to using fluoro wax, and was pretty ignorant on the facts.
Here’s a link to an interesting article (probably plenty written on this lately):
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... f=77ohzuJZ

For background, all my waxing experience was 45 years ago (but things haven’t changed that much, I don’t think).
Back then, my kit was pretty simple: green, blue, violet, red, yellow, a few klisters, a cork, a scraper, and a little mini iron that one could put solid fuel in to heat it up to melt wax in — and of course, pine tar!)
I sense some angst here on TT about waxing. To be honest, it was never that big a deal to me and I covered plenty of miles. Of course, I would occasionally either slip, or glump up, but I don’t think non-wax skis where even a thing then, so that was just the way it was (and I enjoyed it immensely).

The only reason I had selected the fluoro wax to build a new waxing kit was because it was ridiculously inexpensive on a European website.
Since Europe is banning fluoro, maybe that explains why it was on sale!
Seems like fluoro has the biggest benefit around 0 F, or with higher humidity, and I’ll be skiing Colorado, so maybe not that much benefit, anyway.

Now that I have more facts, I’m happy to use standard wax, and let some other low-life buy that evil fluoro wax and have to answer for that on judgement day!

BTW, I hope no one is using non-stick pots and pans...

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Cannatonic
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Re: Looking for Wax Selection Advice

Post by Cannatonic » Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:07 pm

no nonstick in my kitchen...US-made stainless steel all the way baby...unfortunately the restaurant industry is still using it.

So you've already got more experience with wax than most of us. Remember also, these regular Swix and Rex waxes are not your father's wax - they have been upgrading over the years and newer ones work better, I can see the difference from a couple 1980's tins I had in storage.

not to dwell too much....95% of water-resistant outdoor clothing has PFC's as well. Vaude and Jack Wolfskin have eliminated them, in a few years all brands will do it. I have replaced my 2 shells w/ Jack Wolfskin, I"m down to one pair of beloved Mountain Hardware pants with PFC but I"m working on a replacement for them too.
"All wisdom is to be gained through suffering"
-Will Lange (quoting Inuit chieftan)

Stephen
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Re: Looking for Wax Selection Advice

Post by Stephen » Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:22 pm

“Not to dwell,” but plastic is f’ing killing us, we’re drowning in it.
I try not to think about it...

Getting rid of the MH pants you already own won’t make the world a better place — they had to have not been made in the first place.
I’m not judging, just making an observation.

Cast iron for me, SS can release harmful metals.

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