NNN BC Heel Slip

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zoomin
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Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:37 am

NNN BC Heel Slip

Post by zoomin » Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:45 am

Fairly new to XCD, bought some e99s a few years back and take them out in the shoulder season mostly, before and after the trails are open and track-set for the season.

I am having trouble finding a boot that will not cause massive heel blisters though. I never have heel blistering problems with my regular NNN skinny ski boots.

I have tried Madshus Glitertinds, Alpina Alaskas and Rossi BC X10. They all cause bad blisters after only 30 minutes of K&G.

Bought the Ezeefeet ankle sock things and they are very good but if possible I would rather address the problem head on rather than apply a bandage to it.

I am tempted to try Yet Another NNN BC Boot (YANNNBCB) - and am looking at leather Alfa or Lundhags based on reviews here and elsewhere.

But, advice from those much more experienced appreciated.

Thanks.

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bgregoire
Posts: 1467
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Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring with lots of turns
Favorite Skis: Fisher E99 & Boundless (98), Åsnes Ingstad, K2 Wayback 88
Favorite boots: Crispi Sydpolen, Alico Teletour & Alfa Polar

Re: NNN BC Heel Slip

Post by bgregoire » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:29 am

Unfortunately its trial and error.

Consider yourself Cinderalla, you must find the right boot last for your feet. Nonetheless, consider that a better inner sole and socks can do wonders. Check this out:

https://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2894

https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=2155

Another possibility is to describe your foot shape and where you are getting blisters, you might get some pointers that way here.

To be honest, some people just can't live without Ezeefeet although it is rare.
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM





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lilcliffy
Posts: 2823
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Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Crispi Svartisen BC; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: NNN BC Heel Slip

Post by lilcliffy » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:32 am

Welcome zoomin!

Do you have a low-volume foot?
I do- and that is the primary source of my heel-lift problems.
People with large-volume feet can simply size-up- not an option for a skinny foot!
What are you using for an insole?
Eating up some volume might solve it.
In the past I used multiple insoles.
I now use thick Channabaree wool "Winter Warmer" insoles: https://www.chennabaree.com/
#1 solution to this problem for me.
I use this insole now in all seasons in ski boots, winter boots, hiking/mountaineering boots, and work boots.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.





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jyw5
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Re: NNN BC Heel Slip

Post by jyw5 » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:09 pm

it took me 3 seasons and 7 pairs to get the boots, footbed, socks dialed in...even then, sometimes, I still get some hot spots. Measuring your feet may help and trying on many many different pairs of boots at a store like REI that allows you to return them also helps.

You may have a narrow heel and wide last/forefoot. get exact measurements of your feet. and what I find is that sizes whether US or EU are all over the place.

I have also ordered 10 pairs of insoles/footbed. fortunately, most of them have not gone to waste.

hiking shoes and socks are the same way for me. when I find a pair of shoes that fits, I get 3 pairs...and 5-10 pairs of the socks.

it has been truly trial and error for me.





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Musk Ox
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Re: NNN BC Heel Slip

Post by Musk Ox » Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:11 pm

The Lundhags Guide boots have this textured and slightly tensioned area on the rear of the removable wool boot liner that seems to keep my heel where it ought to be. They call it 'Heel Fit Control' because it is a way of controlling the fit of your heels. Whatever next. My heels feel super secure, I've never had a single blister on those boots (but I acknowledge they’re on my feet, not your feet, and you can’t borrow my feet).

Insoles and spacers...

When I got blisters on my unlined Lundhags hiking boots because my heel was lifting, Lundhags themselves advised spacers under my insoles (a 'footbed'?) I got a pair from the Army Surplus shop and they really fixed the problem. I made a pair of spacers from EVA sheeting from the craft shop first which were perfect, but I squished them after a pretty heavy season of walking. The Army Surplus spacers are more robust. Every winter, I stick a flat synthetic insulation layer from the shoe shop under my inner sole instead of the spacer.

It looks like all the new Lundhags boots have this 'heel lift control' thing now too so that's not a really a problem anymore I expect.
Last edited by Musk Ox on Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:56 am, edited 4 times in total.





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lilcliffy
Posts: 2823
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Crispi Svartisen BC; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: NNN BC Heel Slip

Post by lilcliffy » Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:23 pm

Lundhags-
ME WANT.
Both ski touring boots and a boot for hiking/hunting/backpacking...
ME WANT.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.





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zoomin
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Re: NNN BC Heel Slip

Post by zoomin » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:35 am

Thanks for the replies so far.

I do have a low volume foot. Slightly on the narrow side though I have square toes so usually like a shoe/boot with large toe box. For reference, these shows have been a revelation for me https://www.altrarunning.com.

I always use an after-market insole. Mostly using the winter-sports version of the Sidas footbeds these days but have others too.

The blisters occur on and slightly above the most anterior part of my heel. So standing on the floor and pushing my foot back against the wall that point where my heel touches the wall is where the blister starts and goes up ~ 1cm from there.

Definitely going to check out those made-in-New Brunswick footbeds!





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jyw5
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Re: NNN BC Heel Slip

Post by jyw5 » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:40 pm

I have a pair of Altra zero drop shoes. You have a wide last. still a bad unsuccifiently addressed problem in the ski and mountaineering boots/shoes dept as they still don't have wide enough models. In at least one of my ski boots, I use a small thin pad that I cut in half -- just the heel part and then have the Chenee Baree footbed/insole over that.

Alfa boots fit me pretty well but you must try them on beforehand as each model has a different fit. bring different socks and your insoles/footbeds to the store if possible. and measure your feet (each foot may be a different length).

see other past posts regarding this.

I use thick wool insoles and medium wool socks in the alfa guard adv gtx, 41 EU. but thinner wool insoles and thin wool socks for the Quest Core, 42 EU.

The foot/boot issue is the #1 reason why I pursued an interest in NNN BC in the first place. plastic AT boots are still illfitting even with a dynafit thermoliner and a footbed/insole. The only model that sort of fits is the Scott Cosmos III, but the shell still needs to be modified a touch wider at the toebox. I also have the Scarpa Maestrale AT boots...bulky for touring but skis well downhill. tolerable for single day tours.
None of the dynafit boots nor arcteryx boots fit...which is a shame because they are slim and light. My feet were in bad shape last yr after a 7 day ski tour in the Canadian Rockies...they would be fine for a few hrs but then when the feet sweat, the heel slip starts and then its aweful, especially on flat sections. given the level of difficulty of that tour, there is no way I could have free heeled down those mountains, but my daily skiing has been more enjoyable as I only used the AT setup less than 10 days this whole year. The plastic boot problem is still TBD, but fortunately, I can get leather boots in NNN BC to fit better than ever.

use this info to help determine your size in NNN BC. compare this info with shoes/boots you already have.

I used to use a lot of moleskin!! Dont need it for my Alfa Quest Core boots...but still need it for my Guard adv

Good luck.





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mik84
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Re: NNN BC Heel Slip

Post by mik84 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:13 am

Hey guys.

My wife have serious problem with heel blisters using her Alpha Kikut NNN BC boots. I read topics about gear similar problems (thanks bgregoire). It's hard to get Lundhags with Heel protection system here (still looking for second hand).
Wife has low/medium volume feet and we used extra insoles and strong lacing to reduce heel movement.
After first day she had bloody heels :?

For next weekend trip, after heels recovered we used:
- short "nylon like" stocking under merino wool sport socks (to reduce skin abrasion)
- anti blister heel plasters (ones that can stay few days)
- tight lacing and extra insole

Result - blisters appeared, not as deep (no blood) but all the first layer of her skin covered by plasters came off.
She's tough but there was nearly no pleasue in skiing for her :cry:

When I compare my Alpha BC/Perform with her Kikut boots, the outer sole seems to be the same (standarised NNN BC)
and as her boot is shorter its much harder to bend it. This causes bigger heel slip.

There are different boots available here (Alpina, Fischer, Rossignol sometimes Garmont) but they all seem to have same shape, pattern and standard of NNN BC outsole, so I belive all will be nearly the same stiffnes.
I saw some oldshool Garmont with older type of outersole and no extra toe box rubber cover (just one layer of leather)- have You any experience if this outsole would be softer?
image (1).jpg





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bauerb
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Re: NNN BC Heel Slip

Post by bauerb » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:03 pm

I've been using new AT boots the past few weeks. I had them fitted twice after purchase( foot beds and extra heel cup pads). heel slip has caused serious blisters on the inside of each heel, just below that ankle bone that sticks out. I mostly blame user error 1) climbing with lower buckles too loose 2) not using the tallest heel riser on steep climbs forcing too much ankle rotation and slippage. my daily routine for the past few weeks: 1). apply Neosporin 2) apply Band-Aid Tough strips 3) apply athletic tape as if you were taping a sprained ankle. because I have not taken any breaks, healing has been slow, but is coming along well. I've decided that both feet and boots need a brake-in period. its uncomfortable, but not a show-stopper. is it possible to get new boots and have them be perfectly comfortable with no issues from Day 1? I have no idea, but seems unlikely unless you have feet that perfectly match the boot manufacturer's buck





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