Madshus Panorama M62 length recommendations

This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
User avatar
rickjamesbrown
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:26 pm

Madshus Panorama M62 length recommendations

Post by rickjamesbrown » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:58 pm

Looking to buy the Madshus Panorama M62, and need a ski length recommendation. The chart by Madshus is a little confusing because I don't know what classification they consider this ski (classic? multigrip?). They would be used for mostly rolling terrain with a little bit of steeper downhills occasionally. Looking for a compromise of being reasonably fast on flats and decent with turns. Originally considered the Panorama M55, but I've read it really isn't great for turns.

Would be buying a pair for myself and another for my partner. I'm 5'10" 185-190 lbs and she's 5'7" and a little under 120 lbs. Was leaning toward 195 cm for myself, and either 175-185 cm for her. Any thoughts out there? A bit new to this. Thanks in advance!

User avatar
wabene
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:53 am

Re: Madshus Panorama M62 length recommendations

Post by wabene » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:47 pm

Hey RJB
I've been looking at the M62's myself and it is not only hard to get any info on them, but I can't get my hands on a pair. The local ski shop has the m68's but I think that's a touch wide for my purposes. I'm 5'9" and 180 and I was going to pull the trigger on the 195cm. If anyone has info on these like flex pattern, camber, rocker and stiffness, I'm all ears! I'm also wondering what kind of difference the lack of a groove down the center of the base will make.





User avatar
rickjamesbrown
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:26 pm

Re: Madshus Panorama M62 length recommendations

Post by rickjamesbrown » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:01 pm

Well, I pulled the trigger on the 195 cm over the weekend and I should have them early next week. I'm in NY and as long as it stays cold and snowy for the next few weeks I'll let you know what I think - though I'm pretty new to the sport in general.

Right now I"m trying to figure out what's the best way to prep the bases. Are there any good guides for waxing skin-based skis like this?





User avatar
Roelant
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 6:33 am
Location: Subarctic Scandinavian Taiga
Ski style: Backcountry in the wild, cross country on trails
Favorite Skis: Nansen, FT62, Combat NATO
Favorite boots: Crispi Bre, Scarpa T4
Occupation: Ion Counter

Re: Madshus Panorama M62 length recommendations

Post by Roelant » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:45 pm

I'm not a very experienced waxer, but this thread here by @lilcliffy has many good pointers which has made it easier for me
http://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 7be40db6b6
Summary:
-Don't use glide wax
-Clean bases first
-Apply Swix polar v05 from the heel to the tip, iron in. This serves as glide wax up to quite cold temperatures in addition to being an effective base binder.
-Apply wax of the day from heel forwards about 60 cm or however much you like, all the way to the tip gives great climbing ability but less glide. Buff in using Cork. Several layers are good for durability.
-Don't mount skin on any wax for warmer temperatures than Swix Blue (extra?) or you'll pull the wax off when removing the skins

I'm still reluctant to use warmer wax because of the last point, not keen to start scraping and removing wax on the trail.





User avatar
lilcliffy
Posts: 2823
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Crispi Svartisen BC; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: Madshus Panorama M62 length recommendations

Post by lilcliffy » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:06 pm

wabene wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:47 pm
I'm also wondering what kind of difference the lack of a groove down the center of the base will make.
The track groove will encourage the ski to track straight ahead when XC skiing- and it does!
Please let us know how you make out with the latest generation of a now classic ski design!
Gareth
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.





User avatar
lilcliffy
Posts: 2823
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Crispi Svartisen BC; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: Madshus Panorama M62 length recommendations

Post by lilcliffy » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:10 pm

rickjamesbrown wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:01 pm
Well, I pulled the trigger on the 195 cm over the weekend and I should have them early next week. I'm in NY and as long as it stays cold and snowy for the next few weeks I'll let you know what I think - though I'm pretty new to the sport in general.
Please let us know how you make out with this ski!
Right now I"m trying to figure out what's the best way to prep the bases. Are there any good guides for waxing skin-based skis like this?
My advice would be consistent with Roelant's above ↑
If you end skiing exclusively in NY you may never end up on snow that is so cold that Swix Polar (or equivalent very hard grip wax) works as a kick wax.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.





User avatar
rickjamesbrown
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:26 pm

Re: Madshus Panorama M62 length recommendations

Post by rickjamesbrown » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:02 am

Thanks for the advice!

Good to know about the Swix Polar as a base+glide for warmer temps. I will be skiing exclusively in NY for the rest of this season at least (central NY, finger lakes region), So I do expect the weather to be on the warmer side. Would you advise to just apply it to the whole base before I attach the skin? Maybe just clean up where the skin will stick down with some base cleaner? Or skin first, then wax?

Do you do any treatment to the skin itself? I see that some companies sell skin cleaner and also "skin wax". Are those advisable at all on the Madshus skins?

I was also interested in trying them as waxable skis, and they're also advertised as such. If you run them without the skin, does anyone make something that fills in the little cavity where you attach the front of the skin? Or does that really present negligible resistance?

Thanks again for all the advice!





User avatar
Roelant
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 6:33 am
Location: Subarctic Scandinavian Taiga
Ski style: Backcountry in the wild, cross country on trails
Favorite Skis: Nansen, FT62, Combat NATO
Favorite boots: Crispi Bre, Scarpa T4
Occupation: Ion Counter

Re: Madshus Panorama M62 length recommendations

Post by Roelant » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:19 am

rickjamesbrown wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:02 am
Thanks for the advice!

Good to know about the Swix Polar as a base+glide for warmer temps. I will be skiing exclusively in NY for the rest of this season at least (central NY, finger lakes region), So I do expect the weather to be on the warmer side. Would you advise to just apply it to the whole base before I attach the skin? Maybe just clean up where the skin will stick down with some base cleaner? Or skin first, then wax?

Do you do any treatment to the skin itself? I see that some companies sell skin cleaner and also "skin wax". Are those advisable at all on the Madshus skins?

I was also interested in trying them as waxable skis, and they're also advertised as such. If you run them without the skin, does anyone make something that fills in the little cavity where you attach the front of the skin? Or does that really present negligible resistance?

Thanks again for all the advice!
My advice above is for using them as waxable skis. The cavity should make negligable resistance. You can use them that way at temperatures below -2 centigrade (upper grip limit temperature of Swix Blue Extra).
Grip wax will glide much better than the kicker skin, especially if just from the heel to the skin mounting hole.
If you put grip wax (IE Blue Extra) all the way to the tip, you will have better grip than with the skin, and maybe comparable glide (or better, I do not know the Madshus skins).
At warmer temperatures (near 0) you can use warmer grip wax, but then you need to scrape this off before applying the kicker skin. Some people here are real waxing artists and have good success with warm temp grip wax, I have not experimented this way yet, so for now I use either cold grip wax (polar + green or polar + blue) and just mount the skin when it gets warmer. If youre not on consolidated snow the difference in glide between wax and skin is less.

Clean the base first with base cleaner before applying the V05 Polar, no soft grip wax or glider should remain.

I am not sure why you would want to grip wax with the skin on? The skin should provide enough traction. Do NOT get grip wax (including polar) on the furry side of the skins.

You can waterproof the skins for several days worth of skiing by mounting them on a CLEAN base, rubbing some softer glide wax onto the skin front to back. You can also iron it in but use temperatures as low as possible while still melting the wax, or you will destroy the skins.





User avatar
rickjamesbrown
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:26 pm

Re: Madshus Panorama M62 length recommendations

Post by rickjamesbrown » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:41 pm

Roelant wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:19 am

I am not sure why you would want to grip wax with the skin on? The skin should provide enough traction. Do NOT get grip wax (including polar) on the furry side of the skins.
Oh, sorry. What I was asking was: should I use the polar wax on the entire ski base, and then put the skin on (glue would then adhere to ski base coated with polar wax), or should the skin stick to the bare, cleaned surface (no wax) of the ski, and then apply the polar wax avoiding the skin? I feel like the latter case seems best for sticking, but then again I also read that you want a layer of wax on the base to keep it from drying out.

Also as I mentioned, I'm kind of new to this and have mostly rented skis before, so I've never done the prep myself. I'm sorry in advance for these basic questions. What's a good base cleaner? Citrus based ones (pedros)? Or alcohol based? I keep a bottle of straight isopropanol in my shop at all times. Any disadvantage to using that so long as I wax right after to keep the base from drying out? Maybe dilute with a little water?





User avatar
Roelant
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 6:33 am
Location: Subarctic Scandinavian Taiga
Ski style: Backcountry in the wild, cross country on trails
Favorite Skis: Nansen, FT62, Combat NATO
Favorite boots: Crispi Bre, Scarpa T4
Occupation: Ion Counter

Re: Madshus Panorama M62 length recommendations

Post by Roelant » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:01 pm

rickjamesbrown wrote:
Oh, sorry. What I was asking was: should I use the polar wax on the entire ski base, and then put the skin on (glue would then adhere to ski base coated with polar wax), or should the skin stick to the bare, cleaned surface (no wax) of the ski, and then apply the polar wax avoiding the skin? I feel like the latter case seems best for sticking, but then again I also read that you want a layer of wax on the base to keep it from drying out.

Also as I mentioned, I'm kind of new to this and have mostly rented skis before, so I've never done the prep myself. I'm sorry in advance for these basic questions. What's a good base cleaner? Citrus based ones (pedros)? Or alcohol based? I keep a bottle of straight isopropanol in my shop at all times. Any disadvantage to using that so long as I wax right after to keep the base from drying out? Maybe dilute with a little water?
The skins will stick just fine to any grip wax. If you use a too soft grip wax, the wax will stick more to the skin than to the base and you'll pull it off when you remove the skin.
So yes wax the entire base with polar first. If you hot wax it, let it cool before applying the skin
The consensus here says don't glue skins on wax for warmer temperatures than Swix Blue or Blue Extra. I had issues with Blue extra recently, but my base was contaminated with glide wax and grip wax sticks poorly to glide wax, so the blue extra preferred my skin glue over the contaminated ski base.

The point of the polar is to act as both glide wax in temps warmer than -20 centigrade, and base binder for the grip wax instead of the skin. If I was sure to ski with only the skin I probably wouldn't bother with polar at all.

I use special base cleaner but iirc it's the same stuff as white gas (camping stove gas). Perhaps other ones work fine too. No need to clean the skis all the time, only remember to clean if you put on softer wax or klister before applying skins





Post Reply